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The Islamic state

id say like anything else theres a variety of factors that arent covered by ideology...status..kudos..peer admiration...the excitement of war compared to a wet afternoon stacking shelves in Leicester..the opportunty for a nobody to be a somebody...getting away from the parents . And for others the opportunities war brings..to do as one wills with nobody to stop you . This outfit are an obvious magnet for psychopaths and sociopaths . And they pay well .
ideology will always be a factor but theres a lot of other motivations for these animals and plenty of opportunities to indulge oneself in activities most societies consider highly illegal and immoral

That's exactly what they said about the International Brigades.

Queen Elizabeth (iirc) called the IB volunteers "the scum of England."

Foreign volunteers for IS are part of a global process of ideological radicalization that has affected Muslims throughout the world for the last 35 years. To dismiss them as criminal or self-interested is to misunderstand them.
 
That's exactly what they said about the International Brigades.

Queen Elizabeth (iirc) called the IB volunteers "the scum of England."

Foreign volunteers for IS are part of a global process of ideological radicalization that has affected Muslims throughout the world for the last 35 years. To dismiss them as criminal or self-interested is to misunderstand them.

except i havent actually done that. ive ponted out their main support base doesnt support their ideology and neither do their military planners . And that their ablty to attract recruits has more to do with resources and state backing. And those resources attract people for reasons other than ideology . The entire Syrian insurgency has been riven with outright criminality from the very outset .

in short..while ideology plays a role there are other factors and motivations at work .
 
except i havent actually done that. ive ponted out their main support base doesnt support their ideology and neither do their military planners . And that their ablty to attract recruits has more to do with resources and state backing. And those resources attract people for reasons other than ideology . The entire Syrian insurgency has been riven with outright criminality from the very outset .

in short..while ideology plays a role there are other factors and motivations at work .

Again, everything you say here could be said of any volunteer force. All of it, and much worse, was often said of the IRA. I can't imagine why you think it's any more true of IS than of the IRA--unless it is your preference for one ideology over the other.
 
BuyScmQIgAInvIe.jpg


the guy circled meeting McCain. The main man himself...caliph Ibrahim


bak.jpg


abu-bakr-al-baghdadi_zps460a8f07.jpg


alongsde Al Qaeda leader Mohammad Nour


john_mccain_with_isis_chief_abu_bakr_al-baghdadi_2.jpg
There are a couple of articles claiming McCain's connection to ISIS is conspiracy theory. The first is from the NY Times. The second is from some right wing christian. It has the same picture you posted & claims the guy in the red circle isn't AL-baghdadi because the width of the nose is different. I don't know who to believe at this point.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/w...shake-falsehoods-about-ties-to-isis.html?_r=0

http://shoebat.com/2014/08/26/john-...ever-cia-mossad-agent-vatican-harlot-babylon/
 
Just because somebody is a thrill seeking sociopath doesn't mean they can't be a useful combatant:(
Plus cm's brand of Islam quiet perfect excuse for all your murdrous fantasy's
 
There are a couple of articles claiming McCain's connection to ISIS is conspiracy theory. The first is from the NY Times. The second is from some right wing christian. It has the same picture you posted & claims the guy in the red circle isn't AL-baghdadi because the width of the nose is different. I don't know who to believe at this point.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/w...shake-falsehoods-about-ties-to-isis.html?_r=0

http://shoebat.com/2014/08/26/john-...ever-cia-mossad-agent-vatican-harlot-babylon/


McCain's denals arent all that credble..when one considers they insist the guy was actually an FSA commander but they refuse to name him in case it endangers his safety. Bloody laughable .
 
Again, everything you say here could be said of any volunteer force. All of it, and much worse, was often said of the IRA. I can't imagine why you think it's any more true of IS than of the IRA--unless it is your preference for one ideology over the other.

even in the most fervent musings of the Lisburn press office allegations lie these were never made against the IRA

“Atrocious accounts of abduction and detention of Yazidi, Christian, as well as Turkomen and Shabak women, girls and boys, and reports of savage rapes, are reaching us in an alarming manner," Ms. Bangura and Mr. Mladenov stated, pointing out that some 1,500 Yazidi and Christian persons may have been forced into sexual slavery.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48477#.VDODnFe9Z3x



“We condemn, in the strongest terms, the explicit targeting of women and children and the barbaric acts the ‘Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant’ has perpetrated on minorities in areas under its control, and we remind all armed groups that acts of sexual violence are grave human rights violations that can be considered as war crimes and crimes against humanity”, SRSG Bangura said, urging all parties to the conflict to adhere to their responsibilities to protect civilians..

http://www.uniraq.org/index.php?opt...ternally-displaced-persons&Itemid=605&lang=en

The fate of most of the hundreds of Yezidis abducted and held captive by the Islamic State remains unknown. Many of those held by IS have been threatened with rape or sexual assault or pressured to convert to Islam. In some cases entire families have been abducted.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/grue...slamic-state-moves-wipe-out-minorities-2014-0


Shortly after their conquest of Mosul, young men armed with assault rifles went door to door in Iraq’s second-largest city, taking “women who are not owned” for jihad al-nikah, or sex jihad.

From June 9-12, women’s rights activists documented 13 cases of women who were kidnapped and raped by militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) or DAIISH, the Arabic shorthand for the group’s name. Of the 13 women, four of them committed suicide because they couldn’t stand the shame. One woman’s brother committed suicide because he could not bear the fact that he was unable to protect his sister.

http://fpif.org/surging-violence-women-iraq/

add to all that the heavily documented cases of looting and outright extortion where local populations are taxed at gunpoint on pain of death alongside widespread kidnapping for ransom as well as sexual slavery and you basically have a collection of sadists rapists pedos and gangsters claiming legitimacy for their crimes under the guise of Allahs dispensation . Theyre criminals of the worst sort no matter what veil of piety they adopt to justify their crimes. A group of sadists without scruples will be a magnet for the unscrupulous as a matter of course .
 
Rock up with a beard and if you survive anything goes:(


I should imagine the strictures are a little more thorough. Me turning up with a beard and some vaugue koran knowledge would see me getting beheaded on youtube. Not how anyone wants to go out.

The first journo of aus who got beheaded with a big paring knife, can't get his face out of my head, it was just writ on the boat, fear and anger.

IS are paying 400 usd per month to their fighters, less than the dole. So foriegners coming into the fold are hardly likely to be motivated by money imho.
 
But the locals that's quite a bit and access to a free sex slave and all the loot you can carry:mad:.
It's jihad so anyone against you is the ultimate "other"
For a really truly evil war you want religion or a close approximation of one see the SS /Khmer rouge/manifest destiny etc etc.:(
 
Seems Turkey won't 'play' unless the west guarantees the removal of Assad.Cynical, opportunistic bastards.
 
IS are paying 400 usd per month to their fighters, less than the dole. So foreigners coming into the fold are hardly likely to be motivated by money imho.

Many of those from the UK that have got involved in Jihad have been middle-class, students, doctors and so on. People with a stake, although perhaps people more likely to have had run up against a wall of prejudice and the arcane structuring of UK society. But generally not those with nothing to lose. The ability to travel and join in is something of a privilege in itself.

(the exception might be those radicalised in prisons)
 
That's exactly what they said about the International Brigades.

Queen Elizabeth (iirc) called the IB volunteers "the scum of England."

Foreign volunteers for IS are part of a global process of ideological radicalization that has affected Muslims throughout the world for the last 35 years. To dismiss them as criminal or self-interested is to misunderstand them.

Yep - and the idea that they're just self-interested is perfectly in line with the 'greed' thesis for civil war, as subscribed to by such progressive institution s as the world bank and imf. There's a great takedown out there by Christopher Cramer called 'homo-economicus goes to war'. On My phone now but I'll post a link later if I don't forget.
 
That's exactly what they said about the International Brigades.

Queen Elizabeth (iirc) called the IB volunteers "the scum of England."

Foreign volunteers for IS are part of a global process of ideological radicalization that has affected Muslims throughout the world for the last 35 years. To dismiss them as criminal or self-interested is to misunderstand them.

I would think those travelling from the west are mainly ideologically motivated but as for the home grown lot, then I think a lot of what CR said is true.
 
I would think those travelling from the west are mainly ideologically motivated but as for the home grown lot, then I think a lot of what CR said is true.

I think CR is on the money re: the ones travelling from the UK too. There are a variety of factors in action, as evinced by IS's choice of propaganda memes.

An-Isis-propaganda-photog-010.jpg
 
Numerous reports from various people with different interests of massively increased airstrikes around kobane the last hour.

It is doubtful that it would actually happen of course, but the thought does occur that if the Turks did intervene now on ground and on the side of the defenders of Kobane, the ISIS lot who have been trying to take the city would get completely Stalingrad-ed.
 
except i havent actually done that. ive ponted out their main support base doesnt support their ideology and neither do their military planners . And that their ablty to attract recruits has more to do with resources and state backing. And those resources attract people for reasons other than ideology . The entire Syrian insurgency has been riven with outright criminality from the very outset .

in short..while ideology plays a role there are other factors and motivations at work .

....very interesting comment...a bit of copy-pasta from the FT if I may...?

from here : http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/34e874ac-3dad-11e4-b782-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3EF7aFLN2

Fuelling Isis Inc

By Borzou Daragahi and Erika Solomon

Waiting for his job interview, the young Syrian was impressed by the array of high-end camera equipment, video-editing pods and overall organisation in the offices of his prospective employer. The salary, five times that of a typical Syrian civil servant, was not bad either.

“They offered me $1,500 a month, plus a car, a house and all the cameras I needed,” says the one-time tailor in his late 20s. “I remembered looking around the office. It was amazing the equipment they had in there. I remember thinking, these people can’t just be getting their money on their own. There has to be a state behind this.”

....on how the ISIS oil-operation was plugged into the existing underground economy : ( note this was before there were airstrikes on some of their infrastructure )

….experts say that to crack down on Isis’s finances, western governments and their Middle East allies must look first at a decades-old oil smuggling network, which is now being tapped by the group to finance its proto-state.

This lucrative unofficial trade encompasses northern Iraq, northeastern Syria, southern Turkey, parts of Iran and, according to western officials and leading international experts, is where Isis earns the bulk of its money.

Maplecroft, the risk management firm, says in a recent report that Isis now controls six out of 10 of Syria’s oilfields, including the big Omar facility, and at least four small fields in Iraq, including those at Ajeel and Hamreen.

Oil smuggling has deep roots in the region. After the imposition of UN energy sanctions on Iraq in the 1990s, a robust network of smugglers, traders and bootleg refineries have flourished.

Hundreds of entrepreneurs emerged, buying and selling small parcels of Iraq’s oil at discounted prices and transporting them across the Turkish border to sell at a markdown. Many of the business people have grown rich and powerful, with vested interests and political ties.

Energy experts and western officials say Isis may be laundering up to 80,000 barrels of oil a day worth several million dollars through this shadow market. The oil is smuggled through rugged mountain and desert routes or even legitimate crossings at Reyhanli, Zakho or Penjwan for consumption in Turkey, Iran or Jordan.

“The fact that Iraq was under sanctions for so long led Kurdish and Iraqi businessmen to fill a vacuum and create smuggling networks for Iraqi oil,” says Valerie Marcel, a Middle East and Africa energy specialist at Chatham House, the London think-tank. “Turkish, Iranian, Syrian, Iraqi networks have grown because of decades of bans on exports. From Iraq and now from Syria there is this grey market. That’s becoming a huge problem.”

Black market oil is often refined at plants in Iraqi Kurdistan that are partly the byproduct of the tensions between Kurdish leaders and Baghdad. In recent years the Kurdistan Regional Government looked the other way as homegrown refineries popped up to supply the local market after Baghdad banned the export of petroleum products without its consent.

This means that the Kurds are potentially helping put money in the coffers of the jihadi group that its own peshmerga forces are fighting. “It’s now possible that Isis could be selling crude [via middlemen] to these knock-off refineries,” says Bilal Wahab, an energy expert at the American University of Sulaymaniyah. “The KRG is unwilling to shut them down because it would have to raise the price of gasoline. It can’t raise the price of gasoline because it can’t pay salaries, and it can’t pay salaries because the central government hasn’t given the KRG its budget in eight months. Yes, it’s illegal. Yes, it’s bad. But it is what greases the wheels of the economy.”

....the profile of ethnic-cleansing with criminal activity recalls the Serb "warlords" like Arkan etc. who evolved from common-or-garden gangs to political actors on the back of collapse into failed-statehood....
 
But the locals that's quite a bit and access to a free sex slave and all the loot you can carry:mad:.
It's jihad so anyone against you is the ultimate "other"
For a really truly evil war you want religion or a close approximation of one see the SS /Khmer rouge/manifest destiny etc etc.:(

I don't think the war in Cambodia was like this.
 
Yep - and the idea that they're just self-interested is perfectly in line with the 'greed' thesis for civil war, as subscribed to by such progressive institution s as the world bank and imf. There's a great takedown out there by Christopher Cramer called 'homo-economicus goes to war'. On My phone now but I'll post a link later if I don't forget.

Please do, I'd really like to read that.

The thing is, no atheist or agnostic can really understand the motives that impel young men to give up promising futures in the West to join a far-away war, in which the chances of them getting killed must be extremely high, no matter how much success their army is having.

We tend to assume that they must be motivated by avarice or lust, because those are the only factors that motivate people in Western society. But we would be foolish to think that the rest of the world feels the same.
 
It is doubtful that it would actually happen of course, but the thought does occur that if the Turks did intervene now on ground and on the side of the defenders of Kobane, the ISIS lot who have been trying to take the city would get completely Stalingrad-ed.

Of course they would.

And the next day they'd send 500 suicide bombers to Istanbul.

Yes, they could do it if they wanted. I spend a lot of time in Istanbul, so would rather not see that happen. I'd do quite a lot to keep Turkey out of this war. If Westerners had any sense, they'd be doing the same.
 
Yep - and the idea that they're just self-interested is perfectly in line with the 'greed' thesis for civil war, as subscribed to by such progressive institution s as the world bank and imf. There's a great takedown out there by Christopher Cramer called 'homo-economicus goes to war'. On My phone now but I'll post a link later if I don't forget.

Please do, I'd really like to read that.

The thing is, no atheist or agnostic can really understand the motives that impel young men to give up promising futures in the West to join a far-away war, in which the chances of them getting killed must be extremely high, no matter how much success their army is having.

We tend to assume that they must be motivated by avarice or lust, because those are the only factors that motivate people in Western society. But we would be foolish to think that the rest of the world feels the same.

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/chwe/austen/cramer2002.pdf
 
Of course they would.

And the next day they'd send 500 suicide bombers to Istanbul.

Yes, they could do it if they wanted. I spend a lot of time in Istanbul, so would rather not see that happen. I'd do quite a lot to keep Turkey out of this war. If Westerners had any sense, they'd be doing the same.

far from trying to keep Turkey out of this war Erdogan has been up to his cynical bollocks in it from day one. His officials have been recorded inventing pretexts for intervention and theyve been actively assisting this and other groups for years . Erdogans sole aim is the removal of the Syrian government . Hes quite happy to intervene on that basis as long as hes sure the west will have his back .
Far from non intervention hes actively intervening on the jihadists side by preventing anyone crossing over to confront them . While for the past 3 years his borders have been wide open for the jihadists to come and go as they please . And much more than that ..theyve been equipped and facilitated all over the place by state actors..not least his state.
His preconditions for intervention are pretty clear..both the west and the kurds have to go on the offensive against Syria itself. An infinitely bigger sectarian bloodbath in other words. One hell be quite happy to play an active role in under the protection of the NATO umbrella. Until that happens hell take no action against his bearded proxies. Not unless the west cut him a very sweet deal indeed that makes it worth his while .
 
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