The Islamic state

[ManchesterBeth]

It seems like they are trying to say that this might even be a desirable outcome. Like it seems like its almost bordering on apologism tbh.

Under the Islamic State, he said, life can be brutal, but at least it seems more stable for those who can avoid crossing the group’s leaders. “Here they are implementing God’s regulations,” he said. “The killer is killed. The adulterer is stoned. The thief’s hands are cut.”

Ignoring for one second that is a good thing (islamic sectarianism has known no bounds in history) it isn't as simple as declaring oneself to be juridical authority and employing arbitrary punishments at will. While I make no apologies for islamic law, one can't just march around stoning adulterers or amputating the hands of potential burglers. This thuggish attitude to islam will hold the people back, at least he's the owner of a shop so no biggy right? He's not going to starve under daesh rule when they start coordinating the attack of our class brothers and sisters (if they haven't already.) Petty-bourgeois onanism. Despicable.

 

[8ball]

It seems like they are trying to say that this might even be a desirable outcome. Like it seems like its almost bordering on apologism tbh.

Not read it all yet, but it seems to be cautioning against the idea that IS's depravity ensures their failure in the medium to long term.

 

[frogwoman]

Not read it all yet, but it seems to be cautioning against the idea that IS's depravity ensures their failure in the medium to long term.

Yes and i agree with that but it almost seems to be suggesting that it would be a good thing?

 

[Idris2002]

I well remember when the Taliban took Kabul in the mid-90s. Clinton openly mused about them being a force for"stability" in the region.

 

[8ball]

Yes and i agree with that but it almost seems to be suggesting that it would be a good thing?

Later on it does take on the more worrying tone that this is much like the formation of any state, which seems to betray a lack of understanding of history and context. It also has a very amoral and detached stance.

 

[8ball]

I well remember when the Taliban took Kabul in the mid-90s. Clinton openly mused about them being a force for"stability" in the region.

"Stability" is the watchword of expansionist capitalism.

 

[frogwoman]

Later on it does take on the more worrying tone that this is much like the formation of any state, which seems to betray a lack of understanding of history and context. It also has a very amoral and detached stance.

Yeah tell me about it. I wondered if i was overreacting at first tbh

 

[Pickman's model]

I well remember when the Taliban took Kabul in the mid-90s. Clinton openly mused about them being a force for"stability" in the region.

we all knpw about clinton and his muses

 

[agricola]

Ignoring for one second that is a good thing (islamic sectarianism has known no bounds in history) it isn't as simple as declaring oneself to be juridical authority and employing arbitrary punishments at will. While I make no apologies for islamic law, one can't just march around stoning adulterers or amputating the hands of potential burglers. This thuggish attitude to islam will hold the people back, at least he's the owner of a shop so no biggy right? He's not going to starve under daesh rule when they start coordinating the attack of our class brothers and sisters (if they haven't already.) Petty-bourgeois onanism. Despicable.

FWIW there are bounds to these sort of Islamic movements - either the people they are trying to impose it on defeat them, or if they win the resulting state usually collapses within a few generations because of the effect of obscene wealth.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

FWIW there are bounds to these sort of Islamic movements - either the people they are trying to impose it on defeat them, or if they win the resulting state usually collapses within a few generations because of the effect of obscene wealth.

I don't disagree with any of that. However I'm struggling to see how that relates to what you quoted?

 

[frogwoman]

I know things are going to fall apart for daesh (as they will hopefully for its benefactors in the region) but that doesnt change the fact that its pretty diatasteful for someone to be banging on about the idea that eventually daesh might evolve into something resembling a normal state, being treated as such with internationally recognised passports etc, and that this is absolutely fine, because 'good governance' (whatever that is) does not mean you have to 'treat people nicely'? And because it is 'stable' and 'opposed to corruption' (not counting all the billions they make from just that, selling off antiques when they are supposed to be destroying them, confiscating peoples salaries and so forth?) What the fuck is 'good governance' then if it can include rape of women by armed militias on an industrial scale, summary executions, teaching kids to fucking cut dolls heads off, releasing snuff movies and the countless other things that daesh does on an almost daily basis? 'Good governance' what a crock of shit, what use is any of that if the society doesnt treat people decently which daesh by any standards utterly does not do??

 

[Idris2002]

"Stability" is the watchword of expansionist capitalism.

They make a desert and call it peace.

we all knpw about clinton and his muses

Thought I would set you up with an easy one there, old chap.

 

[frogwoman]

I mean if he thinks it would be such an 'interesting' thing to see what would happen if daesh set up an actual state with passports and stuff and maybe even 'positive' why doesnt he agree to live under it and then report back? 'Oh but as long as you dont do anything to piss them off then its completely fine, i mean there's no chewing gum on the street and they've really sorted out the dogshit problem, im not bothered by youths listening to loud music on the bus any more either, it's fine they've actually turned out quite positively, apart from everyone they beheaded and burnt in cages but they were troublemakers who cares about them eh'

 

[agricola]

I don't disagree with any of that. However I'm struggling to see how that relates to what you quoted?

"islamic sectarianism has known no bounds in history"

 

[frogwoman]

'I know people like to criticise Daesh a lot, but for a small business owner like myself they really haven't been that bad. Since they took over the roads are far emptier and more pleasant to drive on than they've ever been.'
'Yeah tell you what since Daesh took over I havent had any more kids coming into my shop and stealing bars of chocolate and trying to look at dirty magazines on the top shelf.'
'You're right, I don't approve of all their methods, but since Daesh have been in, you dont see any more kids with headphones in or people smoking and drinking on the street'
'Yeah, and all the people who used to be on benefits, they're making them do something useful at last, and teaching them about Jihad.'
'Thats something, it always annoyed me how we were expected to pay for people who didn't...'

 

[frogwoman]

'The streets are so much quieter on a Friday or Saturday night and you dont see any more young girls walking around in short skirts and high heels or people throwing up in the street. And definitely no drunkards telling each other to eff off'
'Yea definitely. That woman who tried to bring her staffy into my shop and couldnt keep it under control, well, I don't see her any more now that Daesh have declared dogs are haram and everyone who owns one will be beheaded!'
'That's great as she used to give you such a hard time!'
'Yes and i never have any problems getting to work, its been a very long time since any of the trains went on strike'

Urgh ..

 

[bendeus]

The people of Cardiff react with shock and dismay at the news that Reyaad Khan, one of our local jihadis, is now just a big crimson stain in the sand after recent airstrikes.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...elieved-killed-air-strike-islamic-state-syria

 

[frogwoman]

Asked if the world was a good place, Khan smiled before replying: “The world can be a lovely place but you’ve just got to get rid of the evil. If everyone could choose the good, the evil will go away.”



Thats creepy as fuck.

 

[bendeus]

Asked if the world was a good place, Khan smiled before replying: “The world can be a lovely place but you’ve just got to get rid of the evil. If everyone could choose the good, the evil will go away.”



Thats creepy as fuck.

But many will need help to choose the good and yet more will never be able to choose it and therefore must be destroyed (for the good of them and everyone else). Then everything will be 'lovely'.

 

[phildwyer]

The people of Cardiff react with shock and dismay at the news that Reyaad Khan, one of our local jihadis, is now just a big crimson stain in the sand after recent airstrikes.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...elieved-killed-air-strike-islamic-state-syria

No-one from Cardiff has teeth like that.

 

[Casually Red]

I well remember when the Taliban took Kabul in the mid-90s. Clinton openly mused about them being a force for"stability" in the region.

I can remember a woman heckling them at a press conference on their US tour,about their abuse of women . And they told her something along the lines of if she was in Kabul shed be taught manners and put in her proper place . Pretty sure the bushes were involved in that .

 

[not-bono-ever]

No-one from Cardiff has teeth like that.

*coughs*

sorry for soccer bantz derail in a serious thread

 

[frogwoman]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-missing-syria-feared-kidnapped-islamic-state

Oh fuck

 

[bendeus]

Can't imagine that worm, Rajoy, would be willing to countenance anything like a ransom, either. WTF were they even doing there?

 

[Humberto]

I can remember a woman heckling them at a press conference on their US tour,about their abuse of women . And they told her something along the lines of if she was in Kabul shed be taught manners and put in her proper place . Pretty sure the bushes were involved in that .

Don't think the Taliban are as bad as as ISIS

 

[Casually Red]

Don't think the Taliban are as bad as as ISIS

What...like a spice girls compared to west life type of thing ?

 

[Humberto]

What...like a spice girls compared to west life type of thing ?

Nah the Taliban took over when there was no government after nearly thirty years constant war. The Warlords were often way worse. Proper horrific shit went on under them. Thats how they operated.

I'm not meaning to defend the fuckers but it gets a lot worse

 

[frogwoman]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...tlemere-rochdale-islamic-state-course-9700923





The poster said: “Recent events in Iraq have raised an unbalanced discussion in the mainstream media who characterised the Islamic Caliphate as an oppressive, brutal, sectarian entity due to the declaration of an Islamic State by an Iraqi militia group.

“Islam prohibits sectarian violence, expulsion of minorities and the Khilafah is not an oppressive dictatorship.”

 

[Pickman's model]

I mean if he thinks it would be such an 'interesting' thing to see what would happen if daesh set up an actual state with passports and stuff and maybe even 'positive' why doesnt he agree to live under it and then report back? 'Oh but as long as you dont do anything to piss them off then its completely fine, i mean there's no chewing gum on the street and they've really sorted out the dogshit problem, im not bothered by youths listening to loud music on the bus any more either, it's fine they've actually turned out quite positively, apart from everyone they beheaded and burnt in cages but they were troublemakers who cares about them eh'

i don't think daesh does foreign travel as per case of unfortunate kick boxer.

 

[8ball]

What the fuck is 'good governance' then if it can include rape of women by armed militias on an industrial scale, summary executions, teaching kids to fucking cut dolls heads off, releasing snuff movies and the countless other things that daesh does on an almost daily basis?

Access to markets.