Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

The Islamic state

phildwyer said:
I imagine the Suruc attack will force Erdogan to rethink his policy.

Trouble is, he's probably being blackmailed by threats of similar attacks in Istanbul, or the holiday resorts. One presumes ISIS could carry out such attacks at will. On the other hand, the PKK could do the same--they killed another soldier yesterday too. I've no sympathy for Erdogan at all, but he's really walking a tightrope at the moment.
Click to expand...

The thing is though it mightn't just be IS . Erdogan very deliberately turned his
Country into a worldwide hub for the absolute worst , the absolute dregs of global medievalism and nut jobbery . Not just in their thousands but literally tens of thousands . Flowing in there from the 4 corners of the earth. To be armed ,trained and hosted . What type of complete and utter wanker would bring that down on himself by choice ?

While IS are prime and most likely suspects..the fact is any number of other groups hosted on Turkish soil..and indeed a few native ones..could conceivably have done it too . And would in a heartbeat .Their motivations and modus operandi are little different. Whatever ones opinion of Assad he was right when he warned those states they were sowing the seeds of their own societies destruction by using forces they think they can control but ultimately can't .

Erdogan , like the Jordanians , took a gamble that Syria could quickly be overthrown . He gambled badly wrong . The big offensives we've seen in Syria over the past number of years , such as those in Latakia and Idleb have involved literally thousands of foreign jihadists ..Chechens , Libyans , Tunisians , Moroccans ...all sorts . Pouring across the Turkish border with tanks , artillery , technicals . Shiploads of weapons by the hundreds of tonnes in Turkish docks and warehouses. For years now . That's utter madness . And now like any demented chronic gambler who keeps losing he has to keep playing the same hand over and over again. Those lunatics have networks and contacts all over turkey now . With their own fiefdoms on his border . Up to their necks in multi million dollar smuggling rackets and all sorts . Majorly empowered . The tail can wag the dog now .

And now he finds himself without a parliamentary majority . And with a policy
all his conceivable co alition partners are opposed to . And a lot of his military and intel people too . And , like a few others according to the Saudi cables, with a vengeful Assad to reckon with down the line should the Syrian gamble not pay off . So doomed to keep playing the same hand no matter what .

Even if he achieves his victory now what does he get ? A failed state on his borders swarming with armed nutters and empowered Kurds into the bargain .
Or if he loses a vengeful Assad who's had close family and friends killed fighting the people Erdogan sent to kill him . And who'll chase the crackpot forces he sent back to where they came from ? If that happens they won't just evaporate..there's far too many of them . Futures not good for turkey either way .
 
Is there any truth to this?

http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2015/07/17/sufi-shrines-under-attack-hardline-groups-syria

On Jan. 16, 2015, fighters from armed Islamist groups stormed the Nabhaniya Sufi School in Aleppo, the largest city in Syria. Including fighters from several factions – Jabhat al Nusra (the Nusra Front), al Jabha al Shamiyya (the Levant Front), Ahrar al Sham, and others – the group of attackers destroyed the tomb of Sheikh Mohammed Nabhan, the school’s founder. The men proceeded to desecrate the graves of Nabhan’s wife, brother, and son.

Attacks on sites and shrines affiliated with the Sufi strand of Islam are part of the broader campaign by groups like Jabhat al Nusra and Islamic State to erase Syrian cultural and historical heritage that doesn’t mesh with their literalist interpretation of religion.


Lots of foreign jihadis have deserted ISIS and joined these other groups (and vice versa). A lot of it seems to be like a turf war tbh.
 
"We regularly hear gunshots coming from the woods up there for long periods at a time. It happens every week," he told The Mirror, referring to two houses on a hill. "I don't know what they are doing, whether it is target practice or something like that, but it happens regularly."



:eek:
 
Casually Red said:
The thing is though it mightn't just be IS . Erdogan very deliberately turned his
Country into a worldwide hub for the absolute worst , the absolute dregs of global medievalism and nut jobbery . Not just in their thousands but literally tens of thousands . Flowing in there from the 4 corners of the earth. To be armed ,trained and hosted . What type of complete and utter wanker would bring that down on himself by choice ?

While IS are prime and most likely suspects..the fact is any number of other groups hosted on Turkish soil..and indeed a few native ones..could conceivably have done it too . And would in a heartbeat .Their motivations and modus operandi are little different. Whatever ones opinion of Assad he was right when he warned those states they were sowing the seeds of their own societies destruction by using forces they think they can control but ultimately can't .

Erdogan , like the Jordanians , took a gamble that Syria could quickly be overthrown . He gambled badly wrong . The big offensives we've seen in Syria over the past number of years , such as those in Latakia and Idleb have involved literally thousands of foreign jihadists ..Chechens , Libyans , Tunisians , Moroccans ...all sorts . Pouring across the Turkish border with tanks , artillery , technicals . Shiploads of weapons by the hundreds of tonnes in Turkish docks and warehouses. For years now . That's utter madness . And now like any demented chronic gambler who keeps losing he has to keep playing the same hand over and over again. Those lunatics have networks and contacts all over turkey now . With their own fiefdoms on his border . Up to their necks in multi million dollar smuggling rackets and all sorts . Majorly empowered . The tail can wag the dog now .

And now he finds himself without a parliamentary majority . And with a policy
all his conceivable co alition partners are opposed to . And a lot of his military and intel people too . And , like a few others according to the Saudi cables, with a vengeful Assad to reckon with down the line should the Syrian gamble not pay off . So doomed to keep playing the same hand no matter what .

Even if he achieves his victory now what does he get ? A failed state on his borders swarming with armed nutters and empowered Kurds into the bargain .
Or if he loses a vengeful Assad who's had close family and friends killed fighting the people Erdogan sent to kill him . And who'll chase the crackpot forces he sent back to where they came from ? If that happens they won't just evaporate..there's far too many of them . Futures not good for turkey either way .
Click to expand...

Thing is, Erdogan's not the one who'll suffer. He'll be safe in one of the many palaces he's stolen.

In general I'm not quite as pessimistic as you: the Turkish army can deal with any conventional threat, as they've proved many times. The danger lies in unpredictable acts carried out against civilians by individuals, or by small IS sleeper cells. Tunisia-style attacks, in other words, and foreign tourists are the most likely target. British tourists, to be specific. I hope, and believe, that IS won't be daft enough to attack Istanbul, but I will steer well clear of Gumbet and similar places for the next year or so.
 
I remember some time back on one of these threads some twat I've got on ignore, who was also arguing the FSA didn't have Islamists , was blaming the Syrian Army as opposed to the rebels for the destruction of the ancient Christian churches in Maloula . During the joint offensives against Maloula with Al Qaeda .

Here's what happened to one of the FSA scumbags who openly boasted of his looting at the time, Abu Jafar , of the FSAs " free Qalamoun " brigade .

http://modeoflife.org/pillager-of-monasteries-in-maaloula-found-dead/


What's a lot more disturbing than some mad twat on this site though is its the likes of Der Spiegel and others who backed up the rebels claims that it was the Syrian army who destroyed Maloula and not them .

For example Der Spiegel held up as evidence for that claim an interview given by the nuns , were they claimed FSA and Al Nusra hadn't destroyed anything or threatened or harmed anyone in Maloula . The fact they were kidnapped hostages of Al Qaeda at the time they were saying that might have had just a wee bit of bearing on their testimony . They even said in the same interview they hadn't been kidnapped , and that Al Qaeda had simply taken them to safety . All while under the guns of the rebels . But unquestioningly accepted as testimony by the western media nonetheless in their rebel pr campaign .

Alongside rebel spokespersons denials and their , as usual, finger of blame pointed at the Syrians themselves . Despite individual rebel commanders boasting about what they'd done .
 
Last edited:
It most certainly wasn't the Syrian army who did this to the ancient churches, shrines and graves either , no matter what yarns western media spins on the rebels behalf .

Icons and statues , some ancient , methodically defaced with knives and bayonets . It took time , effort and determination to do this lot all over town

RTR3LZVR.jpg


icons-desecrated.jpg


maaloula-2_small.jpg
 
Last edited:
Another issue from that Der spiegel article I read which claimed the rebel destruction of Maaloula was Assadist propaganda , despite a wealth of easily obtainable info to the contrary and admissions by the rebels themselves .
Der Spiegel pointed to RT footage of a Syrian tank engaging rebel positions . Which undoubtedly caused some damage . Yet they blamed the Syrian army for it all .

Here's a video from the rebels themselves giving it the Takbir repeatedly as their shells target the churches of Maloula . Maybe these are smart shells that don't damage nice things, who knows .




The amount of absolute horseshit , not to mention brass neck and lack of self awareness , in this article is pretty astounding .

http://www.spiegel.de/international...pr-campaign-to-discredit-rebels-a-926479.html
 
The destruction of a whole youth community is horrendous, it doesn't seem to be getting the same coverage that the Brevik massacre got,
 
Whats confusing me is why ISIS don't seem to have claimed it yet (or maybe they have and I missed it)? Could someone else have been involved or is there some reason Daesh don't want to admit they did it?
 
Geri said:
Because Europeans are MORE IMPORTANT.
Click to expand...

I find the coverage of Daesh in the media to be generally appalling, its all media sensationalism and surprisingly little coverage of the worst atrocities. I think what pissed me off the most was when the bbc had a section about profiles of all the british jihadis that joined Daesh, why couldn't they have one profiling all the Iraqis, Syrians etc who they killed, as that would have interested me far more. Like the bomb blast in Baghdad on Friday which killed at least 100 people, why couldnt we have known something about who they all were? They woulld have had families and jobs or hobbies and stuff that they enjoyed doing before ISIS killed them so why dont we hear about it?
 
phildwyer said:
I believe you, the Wiki figure was from February. Turkey has been extravagantly generous, as usual, and at considerable risk. I wonder when the UK will show similar goodwill haha no I don't.
Click to expand...

Yup. You're also right on the anti-arab racism of AKP supporters. AKP supporters are losing love for Erdogan sharp. As I said above I predict a pretty momentous Erdogan/Davutoğlu split in the near future.
 
dialectician said:
Yup. You're also right on the anti-arab racism of AKP supporters. AKP supporters are losing love for Erdogan sharp. As I said above I predict a pretty momentous Erdogan/Davutoğlu split in the near future.
Click to expand...
I find anti Arab racism among people from varying political backgrounds in Turkey...
 
ISIS Transforming Into Functioning State That Uses Terror as Tool http://nyti.ms/1Voiy9U


Hard to know whether to think this is a good analysis or be made really angry by the bit at the end. I think he's bang on about why people in Raqqa etc support the group but as for the conclusion, I think it's really naive tbh. I think they're spot on about the reasons why people support daesh but i don't see its evolution into a more consolidated state as a positive thing at all. It's a myth to think that acceptance by the outside community or the 'reality of governance' can automatically stop 'radicalisation' (I hate that term but anyway) or stop ideology having an effect - look at the nazis or north korea. And im not sure that ISIS's possible integration into the global capitalist system can or should be seen as a positive thing at all.

Now there is a limited sense of order, and cleaner streets, a low bar, perhaps, but a reality amid years of war and anarchy. Hassan Hassan, an analyst who has studied the Islamic State and is a co-author of a book on the group, said that on the ground there was a “logic of savagery.” If people avoid any sign of dissent, he said, they can largely go about their lives.

“Not happily,” he said, “but they can live at peace.”

He added, “They feel like there is a functioning state.”

A recent study in Foreign Affairs focused on the group’s evolving legal system, based on an austere interpretation of Islamic law and modeled on a system set down by the Prophet Muhammad in the seventh century. Andrew F. March, a professor of political science at Yale, and Mara Revkin, a graduate student there,wrote in the study that over time the Islamic State “could become an increasingly ‘normal’ state, in which the simplicity of rules and institutions plucked out of early Islamic history gives way to bureaucratic administration and positive law.”
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
miss direct said:
I find anti Arab racism among people from varying political backgrounds in Turkey...
Click to expand...

The republicans have always been anti-arab to the core. I have not met a single one who says a positive thing about arabs. The fash, nominally so, as part of Turkish fascism is dependent on the survival of an islamic culture, due to Turks being a nomadic society prior to settling in Anatolia and other regions. Most people voting for the AKP were more racist towards the Kurds (irony of irony, the Kurdish economic bourgeoisie overwhelmingly voted for the AKP in the past.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

tim
Bizarre acts of terrorism - statue of Lenin and Mao blown up in Texas.
Replies
3
Views
386
belboid
belboid
Bingoman
Turkish terror attack 23rd October 2024
Replies
4
Views
738
_Russ_
_Russ_
tim
State murder in Singapore.
Replies
21
Views
846
A380
A380
JimW
Indian state implicated in murder of Sikh activist in Canada
2
Replies
30
Views
1K
_Russ_
_Russ_
Pickman's model
fascist republican state legislators (usa)
Replies
0
Views
378
Pickman's model
Pickman's model
Back
Top Bottom