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The Islamic state

http://www.economist.com/news/europ...nflict-between-kurds-and-turkey-itself-deadly


dialectician what you reckon, you think this is accurate? (Article about the kurds, daesh and erdogan)

Pretty bait stuff from the economist, nothing all that analytical, although it fails to concretely identify how Erdoğan is playing with fire, even within the AKP. One idea you have to realise, and it must absolutely be realised, is that the majority of working-class Kurds who voted for the HDP did out of protest, not out of any sympathy for the programme of the HDP. I'm in Birecik (about 30 minutes away from Suruç.)

I predict a significant rift between Erdoğan and Davutoğlu in the near future. Erdoğan's aims are firmly planted in the trenches of Islamic capital, alongside the more islamist rank-and-file and some to the further right of the party. The AKP is starting to disavow this approach and wants to protect its territorial interests. Many ex-AKP supporters I've spoken to see Erdoğan's 'arabised' pomp as the issue, an attempt to cover up the mistakes of his (and Davutoğlu's) mistaken foreign policy.
 
What should be done about it? There's nothing to be gained by antagonizing Turkey. And from the perspective of Turkish realpolitik it makes perfect sense to use ISIS as proxies against the YPG and similar Kurdish militias.

And against Syria

And Lebanon .

What should be done about it at the very least is to spell it out clearly what turkey are up to . They should quit the bullshit . And stop arming the other bearded freaks as well .

And stay the fuck out of Syria .

None of that would cost a penny .
 
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2015/jun/04/isis-shia-revival-iraq/

This article about Shia Iraq and ISIS's policies in Mosul is really worth a read. Do read it.


Few Iraqis in the south openly champion separation from the rest of the country, but the chasm is widening. It is not only a question ofISIS imposing its rules on personal behavior and punishing people only slightly out of line. While ISIS destroys museums, the south refurbishes them; while ISIS destroys shrines, the ayatollahs expand them; and while ISIS is burning relics and books, the Imam Ali shrine hosts a book fair where scripture shares space with romantic novels. On the new campus of Kufa University, a burned-down wreck under American occupation when last I saw it, three engineering professors spoke of the golden age that awaits a united Iraq, or at least its Arab provinces, once the militias defeat ISIS.

But a dissenting fourth engineer quietly questioned why the south should bother. As long as al-Sistani’s jihad was defensive he supported it, but why, he asks, shed blood against ISIS for a Sunni population that is neither welcoming nor particularly wanted? The further north the militia advances, the more lives are lost, and the returns from the battle diminish. Compared to the south’s mineral wealth, the Sunni provinces offer few natural resources. Much of their territory is desert, and their feuding tribes will only cause trouble. Better, he argued, to safeguard what the south already has. In short, he said, breaking a taboo by uttering a word he claims many privately already espouse, why not opt for taqsim, partition? A heavy silence followed.
 
What should be done about it at the very least is to spell it out clearly what turkey are up to . They should quit the bullshit . And stop arming the other bearded freaks as well .

And stay the fuck out of Syria .

I imagine the Suruc attack will force Erdogan to rethink his policy.

Trouble is, he's probably being blackmailed by threats of similar attacks in Istanbul, or the holiday resorts. One presumes ISIS could carry out such attacks at will. On the other hand, the PKK could do the same--they killed another soldier yesterday too. I've no sympathy for Erdogan at all, but he's really walking a tightrope at the moment.
 
I imagine the Suruc attack will force Erdogan to rethink his policy.

Trouble is, he's probably being blackmailed by threats of similar attacks in Istanbul, or the holiday resorts. One presumes ISIS could carry out such attacks at will. On the other hand, the PKK could do the same--they killed another soldier yesterday too. I've no sympathy for Erdogan at all, but he's really walking a tightrope at the moment.

How many followers would you say you think Daesh have over there?
 
There have been quite a few turkish foreign fighters no? How many of em have come back?

I take it theres never any pro Daesh sentiment expressed in media etc?
 
There have been quite a few turkish foreign fighters no? How many of em have come back?

I take it theres never any pro Daesh sentiment expressed in media etc?

I don't know about the first questions--there may have been Turkish citizens joining ISIS but that doesn't necessarily mean they're ethnic Turks. The general mood, even among AK Party supporters I've talked to, is one of violent hostility to ISIS, bordering on anti-Arab racism. I haven't seen any sympathy for IS in the Turkish media.
 
There's no way of saying. Probably very few among Turks, but over a million Arabs have crossed into Turkey in the past year or so, and no-one knows who they are. The assumption must be that some of them are ISIS sleepers.

Over a million- seriously? :eek:
 
I find that short sighted. Turkey has a complete lack of health and safety so if anything were to happen (I mean in a city away from border areas) it would cause chaos. We would not see the calm sort of order post 7/7, for example. Many, many foreigners who've lived there for years are starting to leave and I'm beginning to consider the same, although not only because of security. Absolutely tragic what's happens today but not surprising.
 
I find that short sighted. Turkey has a complete lack of health and safety so if anything were to happen (I mean in a city away from border areas) it would cause chaos. We would not see the calm sort of order post 7/7, for example. Many, many foreigners who've lived there for years are starting to leave and I'm beginning to consider the same, although not only because of security. Absolutely tragic what's happens today but not surprising.

Its because shes got a villa in Turkey and was trying to encourage people to visit. Tbf I would love to visit Turkey or a middle eastern country but the fear of ISIS does put me off a lot.
 
Sounds about right. The holiday resorts are the same as they've always been and are a very long way from any border. Tourisms been affected a lot though, people have been put off by Syria, Tunisia etc. can't help thinking any resort would be a very easy target given that it's been a more or less open border for several years.
 
Yeah its a real shame. I'd love to go over there as I have friends there. But the thought of ISIS scares the shit out of me. :( which is what they want i know :(

Have they claimed responsibility for the attack btw?
 
Many, many foreigners who've lived there for years are starting to leave and I'm beginning to consider the same

Yep. Many of my friends, both Turks and foreigners, are leaving. It's mainly because of the government and creeping Islamicization, and because of the impending Istanbul earthquake, but now also due to fears over security.

But I'm determined to stay myself--though I only spend 3 months a year in Turkey--and I'm planning to take Turkish citizenship. I figure that the whole world is likely to remain a dangerous place for the foreseeable future. We can run, but we can't hide.
 
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