The Islamic state

[Pickman's model]

On the above prospectus you have learnt nothing from personal experience, which looks about right.

You're stinking out this thread diamond. Please stop.

 

[kebabking]

Would you consider going if you were now in civvy st?

difficult question, or to be precise, difficult answer.

i like the idea of helping against IS, but i think the reality of the situation is for someone like me - i don't speak the relevent languages, i don't have a firm grip of the politics/personalities of the myriad groups involved, i won't understand the nuances, the histories, the rivalries - i could very easily find myself in a group that might looks good, but which later turns out to be very different.

i don't wish to insult these groups - who have fought incredibly hard, and well against a frankly terrifying enemy - but through the prism of 'fighting against IS' absolutely everyone looks good. when IS have left the scene, some of these groups, or people within these groups, or actions carried out while fighting IS, might begin to look a lot less warm and fuzzy.

a lot of this is coloured by Bosnia - there were lots of Brits, and many others, who went off to fight for all sides for all manner of reasons - but what united them was getting into something they didn't understand, and the groups they joined eventually turning on them. some were looking for war booty, some were genuine, some were fantasists, but almost all of them were used as scapegoats, and most ended up dead in a ditch outside a place they couldn't spell.

now my cynicism/reality/cowardice does bring out the odd fleck of guilt, unlike the various loons, inadiquates and nutters who have gone, i actually have some skills and experience the various groups need - they don't need help firing a rifle, but they do need help constructing a heavy weapons fire plan (because they've not used much in the way of heavy weapons before), they need help with the logistics planning for supporting those heavy weapons, they need help coordinating their forces with airstrikes and they need help turning the information that airborne systems can provide into actionable intelligence they can use. i can do that, its what i do, and without the help of people like me their victories take longer and are more costly.

however, i balance that by knowing that if i were to be captured and these cunts started talking my toes off with a hammer and chisel, or dumping me in a field with my hands and feet tied and pouring several litres of unleaded over me while asking me how long the Jordanian officer was concious for as he burned, i'd be talking my arse off. some of what i'd be blabbing could be very harmful if they had the brains to interogate me properly, and would genuinely get British soldiers killed were it to be all over the internet, and so i reluctantly decide that whatever good i might be able to do against IS is completely overshadowed by the harm i would do were i to be captured.

 

[Pickman's model]

difficult question, or to be precise, difficult answer.

i like the idea of helping against IS, but i think the reality of the situation is for someone like me - i don't speak the relevent languages, i don't have a firm grip of the politics/personalities of the myriad groups involved, i won't understand the nuances, the histories, the rivalries - i could very easily find myself in a group that might looks good, but which later turns out to be very different.

i don't wish to insult these groups - who have fought incredibly hard, and well against a frankly terrifying enemy - but through the prism of 'fighting against IS' absolutely everyone looks good. when IS have left the scene, some of these groups, or people within these groups, or actions carried out while fighting IS, might begin to look a lot less warm and fuzzy.

a lot of this is coloured by Bosnia - there were lots of Brits, and many others, who went off to fight for all sides for all manner of reasons - but what united them was getting into something they didn't understand, and the groups they joined eventually turning on them. some were looking for war booty, some were genuine, some were fantasists, but almost all of them were used as scapegoats, and most ended up dead in a ditch outside a place they couldn't spell.

now my cynicism/reality/cowardice does bring out the odd fleck of guilt, unlike the various loons, inadiquates and nutters who have gone, i actually have some skills and experience the various groups need - they don't need help firing a rifle, but they do need help constructing a heavy weapons fire plan (because they've not used much in the way of heavy weapons before), they need help with the logistics planning for supporting those heavy weapons, they need help coordinating their forces with airstrikes and they need help turning the information that airborne systems can provide into actionable intelligence they can use. i can do that, its what i do, and without the help of people like me their victories take longer and are more costly.

however, i balance that by knowing that if i were to be captured and these cunts started talking my toes off with a hammer and chisel, or dumping me in a field with my hands and feet tied and pouring several litres of unleaded over me while asking me how long the Jordanian officer was concious for as he burned, i'd be talking my arse off. some of what i'd be blabbing could be very harmful if they had the brains to interogate me properly, and would genuinely get British soldiers killed were it to be all over the internet, and so i reluctantly decide that whatever good i might be able to do against IS is completely overshadowed by the harm i would do were i to be captured.

the major thing which would put me off (even if i had the background, weapons skills etc) would be the very fluid way groups form and fight and change sides and fight and dissolve based upon the complex tribal structure. you wouldn't want to be in a place where there was a sudden volte-face and yesterday's anti-isis people were pro-isis today.

 

[Patteran]

Its 'IVFOR' I don't think they are that naïve.





btw, they reply to their critics in the comments after the ES article

I wasn't suggesting naivety (although the IVF's Fertile Crescent campaign medals would be terrific) - I was suggesting that the choice of name (& the hunting club tattoo, & the comments about babies hanging from tower bridge) suggested a certain political perspective. Hostility towards IS is not the preserve of the left, i'm aware of that - i'm also aware that my contribution involves nothing more than finding the occasional interesting link on the internet. I hope they're useful to progressive forces in the region.

 

[butchersapron]

Forget Mosul - here's the dynamics at play in tikrit - well embedded ISIS, well planned defence, lots of dead shia and many not fighting or waiting to die -the idea of easily taking a town by numbers should have been dispelled by now. So we have all these things in play - shia revenge, sunni population waiting, local alliances, internal conflict, inability to do what was loudly promised...

 

[Diamond]

the major thing which would put me off (even if i had the background, weapons skills etc) would be the very fluid way groups form and fight and change sides and fight and dissolve based upon the complex tribal structure. you wouldn't want to be in a place where there was a sudden volte-face and yesterday's anti-isis people were pro-isis today.

Tribal structure is probably important but I think there are much many other factors at play as well re: that fluidity, although you may have impliedly acknowledged that as well.

 

[Patteran]

Forget Mosul - here's the dynamics at play in tikrit - well embedded ISIS, well planned defence, lots of dead shia and many not fighting or waiting to die -the idea of easily taking a town by numbers should have been dispelled by now. So we have all these things in play - shia revenge, sunni population waiting, local alliances, internal conflict, inability to do what was loudly promised...

Talking of an 'inability to do what was loudly promised', any news/analysis on the reasons for the KRG's reluctance to clear IS from Sinjar Town? Mattson referenced it in the reddit ama you posted on the other thread (& J Ed posted above) - 'The KDP is in charge of sinjar, they have not allowed us to advance, they have not alloted the troops for the assault. so we wait.' KRG stalling, knowing YPG/HPG have limited resources & will need to move forces elsewhere sooner rather than later, allowing KRG a unilateral victory & control of the town?

 

[butchersapron]

'PKK Fighters in the Sijar' documentary filmed for French channel Arte on youtube - film maker Xavier Muntz spent 20 days on Mount Sinjar with the YPG. Includes interview with Jordan Matson, & I think includes brief footage of the Barnsley volunteer at the 25 minute mark. Brief French language interview with Muntz here.

This was excellent. Thank you. Getting closer to how it all works. And featuring a far younger jordan matson being a bit of knob and his comrades not quite sure.

 

[butchersapron]

Talking of an 'inability to do what was loudly promised', any news/analysis on the reasons for the KRG's reluctance to clear IS from Sinjar Town? Mattson referenced it in the reddit ama you posted on the other thread (& J Ed posted above) - 'The KDP is in charge of sinjar, they have not allowed us to advance, they have not alloted the troops for the assault. so we wait.' KRG stalling, knowing YPG/HPG have limited resources & will need to move forces elsewhere sooner rather than later, allowing KRG a unilateral victory & control of the town?

We seem to cross-post at the same time again. I think you've got it right there. It's cynical, but this is how kurdish politics works.

 

[Coolfonz]

Forget Mosul - here's the dynamics at play in tikrit - well embedded ISIS, well planned defence, lots of dead shia and many not fighting or waiting to die -the idea of easily taking a town by numbers should have been dispelled by now. So we have all these things in play - shia revenge, sunni population waiting, local alliances, internal conflict, inability to do what was loudly promised...

Why only 4,000 Iraqi troops (seemingly a very small number to take any city) and 20,000 Shia militia? Where are the Iraqi army?

And 24,000 troops to take a large city? I assume I'm missing something. Is that enough?

 

[butchersapron]

Why only 4,000 Iraqi troops (seemingly a very small number to take any city) and 20,000 Shia militia? Where are the Iraqi army?

And 24,000 troops to take a large city? I assume I'm missing something. Is that enough?

They're bring re-organised to hold the places after the shock troops are all dead.

 

[Geri]

Vasiliki Scurfield calls for action after her son Kosta dies in action with YPG in Syria:

http://supportkurds.org/reports/vas...r-son-kosta-died-in-action-with-ypg-in-syria/

 

[agricola]

Reports of an attack on the Bardo Museum in Tunis - eight dead, hostages possibly taken as well.

 

[Patteran]

Fuck's sake. Kurdish Newroz celebrations in Hasakah targeted by two car bombs, possibly suicide attacks. 37 dead & rising. Some reports suggesting IS car bombs gained access via regime militia NDF checkpoints. Kobani journalist Jack Shahine's timeline has breaking news & more details - including a tweet from yesterday from official sources warning people of potential attacks.

 

[Geri]

Fuck's sake. Kurdish Newroz celebrations in Hasakah targeted by two car bombs, possibly suicide attacks. 37 dead & rising. Some reports suggesting IS car bombs gained access via regime militia NDF checkpoints. Kobani journalist Jack Shahine's timeline has breaking news & more details - including a tweet from yesterday from official sources warning people of potential attacks.

Yes, I saw this last night - people were posting some pretty horrible pictures on my Facebook timeline. Residential areas were targetted, so the casualties are mostly women and children. Fucking scumbags.

 

[J Ed]

Turkey's AKP have discovered, and broadcast a 2 hour documentary about their discovery, that actually it's *drum roll* the Jews who are responsible for all the bad stuff in the world

 

[ViolentPanda]

Turkey's AKP have discovered, and broadcast a 2 hour documentary about their discovery, that actually it's *drum roll* the Jews who are responsible for all the bad stuff in the world

it's true. I personally was responsible for forcing Erdogan to give his son's company millions of Euros worth of contracts, filthy Kike bastard that I am!

 

[Dan U]

Dunno of this is the place for it but Brian Whelan is reporting on twitter that Choudary and his fellow travellers got a bit of a bashing from pissed off Kurds in Wood Green yesterday. Dibble stepped in. Will find the link.

 

[Dan U]

http://www.haringeyindependent.co.u...monstrators_clash_in_high_street__mini_riot_/

 

[past caring]

 

[The39thStep]

Hi PC how's it going?

 

[The39thStep]

Anjem Choudary (@anjemchoudary)
22/03/2015 22:29
Shia Kurds attack innocent Muslim men & women (just like in Syria) who are just inviting people to islam in Woodgreen m.haringeyindependent.co.uk/news/11872146.…

Lol. The left should have no platformed this lot years ago

 

[Pickman's model]

Dibble stepped in.

quite a surprise as last time anything happened in wood green the police were notable by their absence

Spoiler

 

[likesfish]

Somebody in spooksvillemust be looking out for chourdary much like the gerry and martin show

 

[IC3D]

That's made my day, wish I was there.

 

[past caring]

[QUOTE/]39thStep, post: 13793159, member: 39737"]Hi PC how's it going?[/QUOTE]
Good mate. Mainly on Facebook these days.....

You?

 

[TomUS]

Sean Penn thanks Cheney for ISIS......

“You mentioned Dick Cheney, this kind of, you know, embittered bacteria of humanity,” Penn said. “It’s always a surprise to me to remember that, through bionic technology and so on, this guy’s still here.”
“These are the guys, he and President (George W.) Bush and some others, who invented Daesh, or ISIS,” Penn said. “I mean, they really are that which created it, and so I wanted to give him a shout-out. Thanks for that.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/...tered-bacteria-of-humanity-for-creating-isis/

 

[butchersapron]

Sean Penn thanks Cheney for ISIS......

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/...tered-bacteria-of-humanity-for-creating-isis/

Penn really should not be asking people to remember things - lest they recall the time he tied a woman to a chair and beat burnt and sexually abused her for nine hours straight - the same woman he'd previously put in hospital by hitting her with a baseball bat. Forget the misclaimed pics of cheney with baghdadi penn.

 

[agricola]

Sean Penn thanks Cheney for ISIS......

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/...tered-bacteria-of-humanity-for-creating-isis/

As an aside, there are few things that illustrate modern America better than one of the other stories that appear at the top of that article (this one).

 

[quiquaquo]

As an aside, there are few things that illustrate modern America better than one of the other stories that appear at the top of that article (this one).

Ended up having to pay the costs of being involuntarily sectioned. The ultimate win-win situation for privatised healthcare. Seriously fucked up nation.