The Islamic state

[Pickman's model]

My elderly mum (and half-arsed Stalinist in her youth), who is not usually that vocal on stuff these days being preoccupied with illness was feeling the same when we spoke about it, froggy. Same with the media crap about their fallen comrade Scurfield. I like it when my mum swears.

you like to hear her talking dirty

 

[Geri]

I don't know. I thought the home secretary was in overall charge.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't know. I thought the home secretary was in overall charge.

perhaps you can just say please raise this with the ministers concerned.

 

[Geri]

Yes, good idea.

 

[not-bono-ever]

"Al-Nouri said as many as 40 Iranian advisers are helping in the offensive. Their participation has raised questions about how the Shiite militias will treat Tikrit's largely Sunni residents if and when the city falls. The Sunni Islamic State militants have massacred Shiites, whom they consider apostates, in territories under their control."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/14/iraq-tikrit/24753015/

Interesting that the eeeranians are on the ground

 

[Diamond]

I think folk in the West tend to see the Middle East fractured upon lines, principally, of Israel and lots of Muslims when, in reality, the more pressing dividing lines are between Saudi and Iran, or to put it more broadly, Sunni and Shia.

ISIS are pretty horrible and obviously have genocidal tendencies but the Shia militas who have joined arms against them are associated with similarly eschatological belief systems..

 

[likesfish]

The iraqi army and shia milita are treating any prisoners they take according to the genva convention.

Yeah right paybacks a bitch take part in wide scale massacres of prisoners no prisoner of war camp for you and zero fucks given

 

[Pickman's model]

I think folk in the West tend to see the Middle East fractured upon lines, principally, of Israel and lots of Muslims when, in reality, the more pressing dividing lines are between Saudi and Iran, or to put it more broadly, Sunni and Shia.

ISIS are pretty horrible and obviously have genocidal tendencies but the Shia militas who have joined arms against them are associated with similarly eschatological belief systems..

the complexity of the m.e. widely reported. plus, i don't think you know what the e word means.

 

[Diamond]

the complexity of the m.e. widely reported. plus, i don't think you know what the e word means.

And away we go...

Do you want to give it a rest or are you going to plough on through another thread with your bizarre misrepresentations and crudely constructed battlefields that I presume provide the only meagre colour for your days?

 

[Pickman's model]

And away we go...

Do you want to give it a rest or are you going to plough on through another thread with your bizarre misrepresentations and crudely constructed battlefields that I presume provide the only meagre colour for your days?

stop posting shit and let's see where we go. stating the bleeding obvious (the me is complex, the major division in islam sunni and sunni) not really treading new ground.

 

[Pickman's model]

stop posting shit and let's see where we go. stating the bleeding obvious (the me is complex, the major division in islam sunni and sunni) not really treading new ground.

2d sunni shd of course be shia

 

[J Ed]

stop posting shit and let's see where we go. stating the bleeding obvious (the me is complex, the major division in islam sunni and sunni) not really treading new ground.

He is fascinating *me* with these breakthroughs, I always wondered what all of those different coloured dividing lines on the maps meant! The brutality of Shia forces has definitely not been covered on this thread before and apologists for Iran, Assad, Hezbollah, the Shabiba etc have definitely not been shot down multiple times! Thank goodness we have this intelligent right-wing lawyer to help us navigate through this complex maze.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think folk in the West tend to see the Middle East fractured upon lines, principally, of Israel and lots of Muslims when, in reality, the more pressing dividing lines are between Saudi and Iran, or to put it more broadly, Sunni and Shia.

ISIS are pretty horrible and obviously have genocidal tendencies but the Shia militas who have joined arms against them are associated with similarly eschatological belief systems..

Only if all the Shia in the militias are Twelvers. Mainstream Shi'ism doesn't fixate on "end times", only the Twelvers do.

 

[ViolentPanda]

the complexity of the m.e. widely reported. plus, i don't think you know what the e word means.

Yup. You don't even have to be interested in M.E.N.A. religious cleavages to know that there are power blocs roughly along sectarian lines.

 

[Diamond]

Only if all the Shia in the militias are Twelvers. Mainstream Shi'ism doesn't fixate on "end times", only the Twelvers do.

OK, read my post back and point out how that is inconsistent.

 

[ViolentPanda]

OK, read my post back and point out how that is inconsistent.

You propose that the "Shia militias" who have joined against ISIS have "similarly eschatological beliefs" to the ISIS militants. Your point is inconsistent with reality, which is that onlysome members of the Shia militias are Twelvers and therefore have similar eschatological beliefs to ISIS (Twelverism being a minority sport among Shia). Not all members of the Shia militias are Twelvers, therefore...

 

[Diamond]

You propose that the "Shia militias" who have joined against ISIS have "similarly eschatological beliefs" to the ISIS militants. Your point is inconsistent with reality, which is that onlysome members of the Shia militias are Twelvers and therefore have similar eschatological beliefs to ISIS (Twelverism being a minority sport among Shia). Not all members of the Shia militias are Twelvers, therefore...

I said that they were "associated" with those beliefs.

Do you have trouble with that and, if so, why?

 

[Diamond]

I suspect that this is going to lead to another one of those boiling of the bare bones of semantics that all these sort of debates seem to come down to...

 

[ViolentPanda]

I said that they were "associated" with those beliefs.

Do you have trouble with that and, if so, why?

Ah, more lawyerly evasion and not taking ownership of the context of what you have said.
"Ooh, I can get out of being an arse by putting a different emphasis on 'associated' ". Transparent.

 

[J Ed]

Ah, more lawyerly evasion and not taking ownership of the context of what you have said.
"Ooh, I can get out of being an arse by putting a different emphasis on 'associated' ". Transparent.

Next he'll be telling us about how he actually has a unique insight on the apocalyptic associated tendencies of Shia Islam because he has had a drink in a tea house and spoken with locals in Najaf or something

 

[Diamond]

Ah, more lawyerly evasion and not taking ownership of the context of what you have said.
"Ooh, I can get out of being an arse by putting a different emphasis on 'associated' ". Transparent.

I would say the above is the, or at the very least close to, pinnacle of evasion.

 

[Diamond]

It seems that Violent Panda does not like the English language when it does not agree with him...

 

[butchersapron]

Nice stuff - all shia are associated with twelver eschatological beliefs and so are implicated in all shia atrocities regardless of participation and support and the same goes for all sunnis and ISIS. Great nuanced contribution to the thread. Thanks.

 

[Diamond]

Nice stuff - all shia are associated with twelver eschatological beliefs and so are implicated in all shia atrocities regardless of participation and support and the same goes for all sunnis and ISIS. Great contribution nuanced contribution to the thread. Thanks.

Ta for your contribution.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes,i'm quite happy with my contribution to the thread.

The potential nightmare scenario for some - and with a clear attempt to establish a continuity with the Sons of Iraq and their actions during the sunni awakening:

Iraqi Sunnis join Iranian-backed Shiite militia to battle Islamic State

Wearing a camouflage uniform with militia patches and a green headband, Nawar Mohammed is the image of an Iraqi Shiite fighter except for one detail: he is Sunni.

Mohammed is one of some 250 Sunni residents of Al-Alam who joined Asaib Ahl al-Haq, an Iranian-backed Shiite militia with a fearsome reputation for kidnappings and killings targeting their community, to battle the Islamic State group after it seized their town.

Sheikh Khaled al-Jbara looks the part of a Shiite militia commander with a black headscarf and Asaib Ahl al-Haq patches on the sleeves of his uniform, but he is a leader in the Jubur tribe and the head of Asaib al-Alam.

"They consider us to be like our brothers the Shiites," Sheikh Khaled said of IS jihadists.

While members of Asaib al-Alam take that as a compliment, he noted that for IS, it means they are people "outside of the (Islamic) religion" who must be killed.

"Today, over 600 young men from this area made contact with the (Shiite) sons of the south," he said, referring to those who joined Shiite groups including Asaib and the Badr Organisation.

Sunni militia along the lines of the original SOI also organised in Basra to fight ISIS - this is on top of the ongoing co-operation with YPG/J forces in north-east syria.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It seems that Violent Panda does not like the English language when it does not agree with him...

I love the English language (among others). What I don't like is manipulation of language by weak people who are unable to cop to their errors.
"Associated with" doesn't exonerate you, it magnifies your mendacity.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nice stuff - all shia are associated with twelver eschatological beliefs and so are implicated in all shia atrocities regardless of participation and support and the same goes for all sunnis and ISIS. Great nuanced contribution to the thread. Thanks.

But butch, he alleges that he's slept with a Muslim woman. Doesn't that make him an authority on all things to do with Islam?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes,i'm quite happy with my contribution to the thread.

The potential nightmare scenario for some - and with a clear attempt to establish a continuity with the Sons of Iraq and their actions during the sunni awakening:

Iraqi Sunnis join Iranian-backed Shiite militia to battle Islamic State





Sunni militia along the lines of the original SOI also organised in Basra to fight ISIS - this is on top of the ongoing co-operation with YPG/J forces in north-west syria.

Doubtless they find unity in their similar eschatological beliefs.

 

[Diamond]

But butch, he alleges that he's slept with a Muslim woman. Doesn't that make him an authority on all things to do with Islam?

I would be genuinely pissed off were I to respect your opinion for one moment.

 

[Diamond]

But butch, he alleges that he's slept with a Muslim woman. Doesn't that make him an authority on all things to do with Islam?

Please define "Muslim woman" also...