Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
anyway, leaving this entertaining detour behind, perhaps we could return - however unwillingly - to the topick of the thread, the islamick state.
The Islamic state
- Thread starter brogdale
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ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The conversion isn't rational. The behaviour of the converted in accepting the conversion is what is rational. Conformity to the group is what is rational.
Can we talk about how they recruit?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
let me put it this way, i doubt they employ the devshirme. so by all means chat away about how they recruit: but i don't suppose it's by a load of auld ottoman playbooks.
Seems to me a lot of IS activity is informed by psychotic gangsterism and opportunistic self mythologising barbarety. The guards probably too much of a liability outside, new and perhaps least idilogicaly aware. Johny come latelies.
Supposition.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Phil please answer the first question from which the others flow; is the boy in the video a muslim? If he his where does that leave all your Janissary show boating given your your position that all Janissaries were converts?
Actually engage with the thread and for one minute just stop preening.
Louis MacNeice
He's a convert to Wahhabism.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yes. as per the link i posted, which you might read with profit, the devshirme was distinct from simply kidnapping a load of people.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Rubbish...really this is just stupid posturing. There are loads of people who don't own the means of production who would, if asked the right questions, identify self interest with rationality. I've taught loads of them. Why do you do this sort of silliness if it isn't just to go look at me look at me?
Louis MacNeice
I should have said: "capitalists and those influenced by capitalist ideology."
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
So he's a muslim not a convert and the rest of your assertions fall.
Thanks for the clarification - Louis Macneice
As I just said, he's a convert to Wahhabism. Do you understand the relation between Wahhabism and mainstream Islam?
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Yes you should've, but you didn't because your intention isn't accuracy but self promotion. You've got some intelligence so stop selling yourself and us short.
Louis MacNeicde
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Were the historic child converts you refered to, converts from Wahhabism?
Louis MacNeice
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8ball
Maximum Facepalm
It makes little sense in either form.
But in any case, singling Phil out on the preening front seems unfair.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Phil prides himself on the accuracy of the language he uses and the precision of his arguments (as evidence by the way he criticizes others); they are just some of things he loves about himself. So it's quite legitimate to point out when he fails to meet his own high self image.
And yes I am a bit pompous at times....but also regularly have have been known to hold my hands up to being an ill informed idiot.
Cheers - Louis Macneice
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
I disagree - I think a good proportion of the time he's on a wind-up, using language to obfuscate and misdirect, and is happy with a sprinking of ambiguity at most other times too.
Gracious response, but I didn't mean you specifically.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Phil how's the googling going for muslim child Janissaries; if they existed at all, what proportion of all Janissaries did they make up? Remember that your chosen video is meant to be pointing to billions of potential recruits to ISIS...not just to you as a bit of a clever clogs.
Louis MacNeice
Louis MacNeice
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
The wind up is narcissistic; that's the fundamental purpose of his postings. Sometimes he's useful to a discussion, but it's accidental rather than intentional on his part.
All the best - Louis MacNeice
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
also waiting for him to support claim yesterday about jordanian army in syria.
If I may say so, I think you're mistaking your opinion of me for my own.
I don't have a high opinion of myself at all. I think I'm a stupid idiot. You apparently disagree. That's your problem.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
A poor attempt at a side step and from someone claiming Welsh heritage! So no luck with the googling then. Those potential billions of recruits to ISIS are fast disappearing.
Louis MacNeice
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Poor sheeple.
It's nowt to do with being "sheeple" or not, it's about how people conform to local social dynamics. Everyone does it, not just members of the supine herd such as you!
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
I might have misunderstood this, but do IS have to kidnap the potential billions first?
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
I figured you'd probably not understand that one hence the replacement, but I think I'm onto a loser.
I'll go sit in 'conformity fail' corner...
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Ustase also forced serbs to convert to catholicism, it was a declared part of their programme, 'kill a third, expel a third, convert a third'. Forced conversions arent that uncommon, hindus and christians have done them throughout history. I wasn't referring to that when im talked about postmodernism tbh.
I was referring to the fact that there is an unprecedented number of foreign fighters in ISIS and that this is to some extent the result of 'deterritorialisation' and the erosion of nationality and the nation state in favour of a worldwide 'ummah' - and that phenomenons such as mass migration and the internet allow for this identity to become more 'real' than say, indentification with ones neighbours, workplace, etc.
There's a couple of books i read recently arguing this point, such as the book 'eurojihad'
I would also say that the way ISIS portrays itself through the media almost seeming to do certain things (john cantlie dressed in an orange jumpsuit and talking about how people are starting to lose their heads) for trolling purposes, designed to appeal to the demogrphic of people who play call of duty and hang out on 4chan, is itself a post modern phenomenon
Then again maybe im talking bollocks, i dont think one explanation can explain this, we're all sort of stumbling about in the dark tbh.
I was referring to the fact that there is an unprecedented number of foreign fighters in ISIS and that this is to some extent the result of 'deterritorialisation' and the erosion of nationality and the nation state in favour of a worldwide 'ummah' - and that phenomenons such as mass migration and the internet allow for this identity to become more 'real' than say, indentification with ones neighbours, workplace, etc.
There's a couple of books i read recently arguing this point, such as the book 'eurojihad'
I would also say that the way ISIS portrays itself through the media almost seeming to do certain things (john cantlie dressed in an orange jumpsuit and talking about how people are starting to lose their heads) for trolling purposes, designed to appeal to the demogrphic of people who play call of duty and hang out on 4chan, is itself a post modern phenomenon
Then again maybe im talking bollocks, i dont think one explanation can explain this, we're all sort of stumbling about in the dark tbh.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I figured you'd probably not understand that one hence the replacement, but I think I'm onto a loser.
I'll go sit in 'conformity fail' corner...
Flagellate yourself while you're there too, there's a good chap.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Phil posted a video of a traumatized child in support of his grandstanding assertion that there were billions of potential recruits waiting in the wings for ISIS...which is where I think he jumped the shark from being an unintentionally useful contributor to the thread, and became...
...the phildwyer we all know and...whatever.
Cheers and cheerio (parents evening beckons) - Louis Macneice
p.s. I'll be in the parent not the teacher role...just so as we're clear.
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