Patteran
A nowadays excuse
They've chosen to behave in this way - millions of others suffered 'shock & awe' without becoming sadistic torturers. Self-responsibility is primary.
The Islamic state
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
They've chosen to behave in this way - millions of others suffered 'shock & awe' without becoming sadistic torturers. Self-responsibility is primary.
Other leaders too. Blair is no better. But Cheney is the most outspoken:
"Cheney said sticking pureed hummus, pasta and nuts up a detainee’s anus was “done for medical reasons,” and he said, repeatedly, that “waterboarding is not torture.”"
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...how-low-can/yW2n4lv7C8A6bc5W54frBK/story.html
The leaders of the USA/uk publicly shat all over the Geneva Convention when they invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. They said, in so many words: "that doesn't apply to us." Once you tear up the rulebook anything goes. And they tore it up.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
So do you think you can pin his/ISIS's actions on western states?I hate western imperialism as much as anyone but i dont think that excuse washes here
The man killed is an arab, a muslim, and this punishment isnt even mandated in shariah as far as im aware
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Isis (al qaeda in iraq) has existed since 1999
Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying what I'm saying, nothing else.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you seem now to be saying something different to what you were saying before - at first you seemed to be saying that 'we' shouldn't be fighting wars because they're nasty horrible things. now you seem to be saying 'we' shouldn't be fighting wars because 'we' made them nasty horrible things. incidentally, you know you're talking shit because if you were telling the truth then the fate of the former iraqi army upon the conclusion of 'major operations' in 2003 would have been very different.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you could always make what you're saying something worth saying. but perhaps that's an ask too far.
I remember thinking, right at the beginning of all this back in 2001, that Bush and Cheney's nonchalance about killing civilians and torturing prisoners would come back to haunt the West in extremely horrible forms. Nobody had ever spoken of warfare in such a manner before.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i don't think the geneva convention has ever applied to civil wars.
if you know different i am sure you'll give us chapter and verse.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It is very specifically proscribed.
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agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Lots and lots of people throughout history have behaved in similar ways as Cheney's mob did, and even cited how superior their ethics were whilst doing so.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the kaiser v the herero leaps to mind.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
ISIS has existed since 1999 in one form or another, al qaeda, the group which ISIS split from, has existed since the 70s
Jihadi John and many of the ISIS fighters had no personal experience of these acts, this is not to say that salafism, like the far right in this country, is not fuelled by legitimate grievances but you have to be having a laugh if you think that western fp alone caused an english bloke to leave england and be filmed thousands of miles away cutting off heads and murdering people in barbaric ways.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
It doesnt cover unlawful combatants either, largely because the signatories agreed such people were usually shot out of hand after capture rather than being held outside of the law as the US tried to do.
And as usual you are completely wrong.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
let's see your proof then you auld liar
Pickman's, this is common knowledge. Why don't you educate yourself a bit before trying to participate in these conversations?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/16/world/meast/icrc-geneva-conventions-syria/
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
and iraq? when was iraq declared a civil war? is isis in fact involved in a civil war or are they fighting a different sort of war altogether? questions not answered by your link, which instead is a bit of a mixed bag. on the one hand you have to be a state to sign up to the conventions, on the other hand the red cross can say the gc apply: which is a bit meaningless - i don't suppose there'll be any great war crimes trials after the great conflict's over.
Nobody has boasted about it though. Not since the middle ages.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yes they have.
The croatian ustase spring to mind, pavelic with his plate of eyes etc
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
dwyer doesn't do educating himself though.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
...I take the point about "blowback" and moral relativisim......hell, we can go back to the Dresden fire bombings if we want...
...if it was Cheney they were actually torching then I would take it even more though...
...if it was Cheney they were actually torching then I would take it even more though...
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Why do you reckon he is doing it then? Because your posts seem to resemble crude anti western apologism at the mo. I may have misread but why do you believs jihadi john and co are doing this?
Revenge.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
sadly that's not the way language works, it's not like a mathematical equation or a chemical symbol, words convey more than their dictionary definition.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
for...?
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