The Islamic state

[phildwyer]

I haven't seen him mention war with Turkey but I can't be arsed to go back and check. But those particular posts had nothing to do with Turkey - they're about people going to Syria to fight - the only link to Turkey is that the group they're fighting alongside is an ally of the PKK, which seems pretty tenuous to me.

I can see how it would seem tenuous to you, because you don't have a personal stake in this conflict. I hope you can see why it seems more important to me.

There's a power struggle going on at the moment which will determine the politics of the region for decades to come. If the PKK come out on, or near, the top, they will us that situation to increase their attacks on Turkey.

In fact attacking Turkey is their raison d'etre.

What am I supposed to think of someone who's willing to post up pictures of tanks and comment, essentially, "go PKK, more soldiers for you, more weapons, more power to your elbow?"

 

[coley]

Israel-Hezb has gone quiet again, lull before the storm or does neither side want escalation? I assumed that Bibi might be quite inclined towards a repeat of 2006 given the proximity of elections...

Mebbes he doesn't want another arse kicking?

 

[coley]

I can see how it would seem tenuous to you, because you don't have a personal stake in this conflict. I hope you can see why it seems more important to me.

There's a power struggle going on at the moment which will determine the politics of the region for decades to come. If the PKK come out on, or near, the top, they will us that situation to increase their attacks on Turkey.

In fact attacking Turkey is their raison d'etre.

What am I supposed to think of someone who's willing to post up pictures of tanks and comment, essentially, "go PKK, more soldiers for you, more weapons, more power to your elbow?"

Coming out "on top" will mean they have managed to establish a kurdish homeland, once that's achieved they won't have a beef with Turkey, will they.

 

[Patteran]

The Battle for Kobani, the last four months in stark numbers - sourced from a press conference, translated here.

Number of major clashes: 220
Suicide attacks by ISIS: 19
Number of attacks with explosive loaded vehicles: 37
Number of killed IS-terrorists: 3710
Vehicles destroyed by YPG: 87
Destroyed tanks: 16
Destroyed Dushkas: 8
Destroyed Humvees: 5

Martyrs of YPG/YPJ: 408
Martyrs of Peshmerga: 1
Martyrs of Siwar El-Raqqa: 13
Martyrs of the Turkish left: 2
Martyrs of Shams Al- Shamal: 2

 

[phildwyer]

Coming out "on top" will mean they have managed to establish a kurdish homeland, once that's achieved they won't have a beef with Turkey, will they.

That's exactly when they will have a beef with Turkey. They claim about 30% of Turkish territory. If they establish a state just over the border, they will use it as a launching pad for expansion into Turkey. That's why the Turks oppose such a state.

 

[phildwyer]

So it seems these tossers are actively recruiting worldwide idiots to join their struggle:

"MLKP members from Europe have also joined the brigade and Kurdish, Turkish, Arabic, German, English and Spanish are being spoken. However, there is no problem with communication as the mother tongue is the language of revolution."

http://www.kurdishinfo.com/preparations-international-brigade-rojava

Says it all really doesn't it? They speak the "language of revolution." They don't care what the revolution is, or whose revolution it is, and they won't have to live with the aftermath of their revolution. They just like revolution for its own sake. The ancient recipe for blood and tears. Not theirs though.

 

[coley]

That's exactly when they will have a beef with Turkey. They claim about 30% of Turkish territory. If they establish a state just over the border, they will use it as a launching pad for expansion into Turkey. That's why the Turks oppose such a state.

Well give it back to them,the Ottoman Empire is gone and the days when Turkey could expel or murder large sections of its population are hopefully gone.

 

[Teaboy]

So it seems these tossers are actively recruiting worldwide idiots to join their struggle:

"MLKP members from Europe have also joined the brigade and Kurdish, Turkish, Arabic, German, English and Spanish are being spoken. However, there is no problem with communication as the mother tongue is the language of revolution."

http://www.kurdishinfo.com/preparations-international-brigade-rojava

Says it all really doesn't it? They speak the "language of revolution." They don't care what the revolution is, or whose revolution it is, and they won't have to live with the aftermath of their revolution. They just like revolution for its own sake. The ancient recipe for blood and tears. Not theirs though.

Wherever there is war there will be people who will travel to seek it out, for some people its in the blood. I doubt they are having to do much recruiting, there will always be volunteers.

 

[camouflage]

Wherever there is war there will be people who will travel to seek it out, for some people its in the blood. I doubt they are having to do much recruiting, there will always be volunteers.

Aye, the Adventurers I think of em as, "oh what a jolly good war". I think it's morally wrong to travel to some other nation there to have a go at killing people, even if said people are fascists or islamists (though to be fair a lot of these Adventurers seem to throw in with fascists and islamists, maybe it's the state support re training, weapons, money, logistics and PR etc that makes it more of a hoot for them).

 

[camouflage]

I saw that Islamic State propaganda film that someone posted earlier in the depths of this massive thread, the one with all the slow-motion scenes in it- did anyone else watch that and think "Massive amounts of inspiration from the film 300 going on there"... I did anyway.

No surprise really, 300 is an awesome film and remains way better than it's sequel so far, and when I first saw it I thought it was both Beautiful and Fascistic, the kind of Epic Poem on screen the likes of Golden Dawn would endorse. No surprise that the Islamic State PR department took notes.

ETA: while on the subject of film, culture and recruitment, I have to say I do like the sound of the islamic hymns these Jihadi's favour (having the luxury of not understanding the lyrics). I can see the appeal to some 17 year old looking for something deep, meaningful and glorious beyond the parameters of our contemporary market driven society.

 

[J Ed]

Aye, the Adventurers I think of em as, "oh what a jolly good war". I think it's morally wrong to travel to some other nation there to have a go at killing people, even if said people are fascists or islamists (though to be fair a lot of these Adventurers seem to throw in with fascists and islamists, maybe it's the state support re training, weapons, money, logistics and PR etc that makes it more of a hoot for them).

Seriously? You think it's wrong for people to see ISIS enslaving whole villages of women and girls to be raped and then in response to go and put their lives on the line to fight against that? Do you also condemn the International Brigades in the Spanish Civil War?

 

[camouflage]

Seriously? You think it's wrong for people to see ISIS enslaving whole villages of women and girls to be raped and then in response to go and put their lives on the line to fight against that? Do you also condemn the International Brigades in the Spanish Civil War?

No I don't, and don't get me wrong I considered the Spanish Civil War angle too. I don't consider myself a pacifist and of course Daesh slavers deserve to get face-stomped and it would be satisfying to do so...

but at the end of the day, what would one be doing, travelling to a specific part of the world there to shoot at other human beings, you're putting yourself in a position to kill others. It's the exact same emotional framework that our leaders use when they send us off to Iraq or Afganistan etc, play up the babies thrown out of incubators type angle (ala Gulf War 1)... it's the exact same type of thinking that's used to draw in muslim youths across Europe re the killings of people in the muslim world by Isreal and the US etc, next thing you know they've gone off to join Islamic State.

I wouldn't call someone who went to fight fascists in Ukraine or Daesh or the Assad Regime in Syria assholes off the bat, but it is at best a slippery slope, mostly you'd end up being little more than an Adventurer, gone to feed off the tragedy of others and see what it's like to kill a man... or you'd be a brain-washed fool, programmed to be of use in some fuckers grand and ruthless plan. Choosing to participate in a war is never the right choice imho, if an invasion chooses you then ok, resistance and insurgency it is.

 

[seventh bullet]

lol.

 

[phildwyer]

Well give it back to them,the Ottoman Empire is gone and the days when Turkey could expel or murder large sections of its population are hopefully gone.

What do you mean "give it back to them?" Eastern Anatolia has never been ruled by Kurds.

 

[Geri]

ETA: while on the subject of film, culture and recruitment, I have to say I do like the sound of the islamic hymns these Jihadi's favour (having the luxury of not understanding the lyrics). I can see the appeal to some 17 year old looking for something deep, meaningful and glorious beyond the parameters of our contemporary market driven society.

Are you on a wind up or what? You can the appeal of that, but someone going to fight against them is choosing to participate in war.

Fucking idiot.

 

[phildwyer]

Do you also condemn the International Brigades in the Spanish Civil War?

I know it's an unwelcome subtlety, but this isn't the Spanish Civil War. The SCW was a clear case of right and wrong, with an obvious role for internationalism. In sharp contrast, this is a nasty, vicious ethic conflict, with no good guys on any side. It is no place for outsiders.

The way that you and others on this thread choose to regard the conflict as a kind of football match, where you pick one team to cheer for, applaud every goal they score and boo the opponents, is deeply offensive. And deeply stupid.

 

[phildwyer]

Are you on a wind up or what? You can the appeal of that, but someone going to fight against them is choosing to participate in war.

Oh I can see the appeal of it, just as I can see the appeal of shooting up heroin. But sensible people will resist such appealing cheap thrills.

 

[seventh bullet]

IS is a bit wrong.

Just a bit.

 

[camouflage]

Are you on a wind up or what? You can the appeal of that, but someone going to fight against them is choosing to participate in war.

Fucking idiot.

I think you're the fucking idiot if that response is anything to go by.

Good grief.

 

[phildwyer]

IS is a bit wrong.

Just a bit.

No good guys here. Naive attempts to make the PKK into the CNT reveal only the world historical ignorance of foolish idealists.

Normally I'd leave foolish idealists to their self-deception. But not in this case.

 

[seventh bullet]

No-one is doing that here.

 

[camouflage]

I know it's an unwelcome subtlety, but this isn't the Spanish Civil War. The SCW was a clear case of right and wrong, with an obvious role for internationalism. In sharp contrast, this is a nasty, vicious ethic conflict, with no good guys on any side. It is no place for outsiders.

Don't think I agree with that, the Spanish Civil War wasn't a clear case of right and wrong at the time, as ever in war it's the usual clash of silo'd reality isn't it, people pretty much never have a moment like in that Mitchell and Webb sketch where one of them wonders "erm... are we the bad guys?", having noticed the Deaths Head on his SS hat.

And what helpful role does armed-interventional internationalism really play? If the people actually living there are unable or unwilling by and large to overthrow the regime, a bunch of armed do-gooders aren't going to be able to turn the tide are they, at most they'll prolong the war a bit. In fact I could go so far as to say it's just another form of foreign intervention, but happy to be persuaded otherwise.

"no place for outsiders" I think applies in most cases, and in fact it's often outsiders in some form that caused the shite in the first place.

 

[coley]

What do you mean "give it back to them?" Eastern Anatolia has never been ruled by Kurds.

Don't you think working towards an agreed Kurdish homeland would solve at least some of the conflicts in the area?

 

[Red Storm]

Spanish and German communists fighting with the MLKP (ally of the PKK IIRC) in Syria



A much more worthwhile endeavour than that of the Spanish tankies in Ukraine...

More here.

Good guys

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

The imperialist forces can never buy-out the tribes. Nor can they admit the victories of the resistence in its push to Baghdad.

In their attempted bribery, Washington supposes the sons and daughters of Iraq and Suria who were its martyrs died in vain and they believe they can create sedition within the Mujahideen!

And have they failed in their endeavour and shall continue to fail.

The Arab-Islamic ummah dares to persist against the Americans and British, Persians, and Israelies. Woe Betide them all.

 

[DotCommunist]

the fuck...

 

[butchersapron]

What's dafter here

Don't think I agree with that, the Spanish Civil War wasn't a clear case of right and wrong at the time

or that drivel above?

 

[teqniq]

Ibn Khaldoun so that's you ok with the beheadings and the slavery then?

 

[J Ed]

Don't think I agree with that, the Spanish Civil War wasn't a clear case of right and wrong at the time, as ever in war it's the usual clash of silo'd reality isn't it, people pretty much never have a moment like in that Mitchell and Webb sketch where one of them wonders "erm... are we the bad guys?", having noticed the Deaths Head on his SS hat.

And what helpful role does armed-interventional internationalism really play? If the people actually living there are unable or unwilling by and large to overthrow the regime, a bunch of armed do-gooders aren't going to be able to turn the tide are they, at most they'll prolong the war a bit. In fact I could go so far as to say it's just another form of foreign intervention, but happy to be persuaded otherwise.

"no place for outsiders" I think applies in most cases, and in fact it's often outsiders in some form that caused the shite in the first place.

This is just bizarre.

As in the Syrian Civil War, during the Spanish Civil War there were both state and non-state actors who intervened on both sides. The material and logistical support received by the Nationalists far outweighed that of the Republic. You simply cannot delineate between outsiders and non-outsiders in a regional conflict, obviously this applies in Syria and applied in Spain.

As far as 'prolonging the conflict' goes, I am not really sure what to think of that. I don't think that the contribution of foreign fighters in Rojava is significant beyond morale, and it was probably overstated during the Spanish Civil War, but given the almost genocidal aftermath of the victories of Franco and ISIS even prolonging a defeat to allow civilians to flee seems worthy to me.

 

[J Ed]

I have difficulty believing that Ibn Khaldoun is actually a real person, seems more like a troll character to me.