The gardening thread

[20Bees]

CONTENTdm

images.wur.nl

Here is a painstakingly researched study of root systems. So cool

Yeah cool is not the word I spat when the new young growth just on the surface exposed the perished rubber on my favourite gloves. I’ve thrown everything I can think of at these nettles over three decades and still they go forth and multiply with renewed vigour every year. Roots that look like spaghetti with the strength of steel cables, doing very well indeed on heavy boulder clay.
There are parts of this garden where they’re welcome to stay. They’re actually going straight through my rhubarb and that’s not ok.

 

[gentlegreen]

I'm long overdue making some cordage from nettles ...

 

[two sheds]

Blanch the young ones and have them instead of spinach?

 

[20Bees]

I am wanting to stick a tree down the end of the garden mainly to act as a block from the neighbours behind.. Does anyone know anthing that would fit the bill.. Needs to probably have max height of 6m , but the sooner it gets there the better..

What distance will it be from any buildings? Most willows need to be well away from foundations and some get very big. Do you want evergreen, or autumn colour? Blossom? Silver birch is pretty but can be a problem with pollen allergy.

 

[two sheds]

This is my box tree on the right, or I'm pretty sure it's a box tree, evergreen - view out of my bedroom door after the huge snowfall a couple of weeks ago I think it's a box hedge plant that didn't get cut back. Very sweet as I say.

 

[20Bees]

Blanch the young ones and have them instead of spinach?

I do indeed eat them, in soup and, as you suggest, as a green vegetable along with the masses of fat-hen in the same area. I’m not craft-oriented enough to bother with cordage.
There’s a big rough patch where chickens used to be and those are left alone for butterflies and ladybirds. But this corner used to be a vegetable bed, now it’s all fruit trees and bushes, and rhubarb, and with less ground disturbance the nettles are carpeting it. I’ve been trying to dig out mallow seedlings and the nettles are woven through everything.

 

[two sheds]

Impressed. I do keep meaning to steam them for spinach like veg - I do however throw them in a large container with water to rot down and give a good fertilizer

 

[20Bees]

Impressed. I do keep meaning to steam them for spinach like veg - I do however throw them in a large container with water to rot down and give a good fertilizer

Yep, and that. And I used to wilt them in the sun and feed to the ponies. But I burn most of what I can pull up. They certainly are born to survive.

 

[20Bees]

There was one summer, maybe 25 years ago, when that corner had £200 worth of professional strength Roundup over it... yeah I know...
It’s been a dump for grass cuttings, a muck heap, a chicken run, it’s had a bank of pallet compost bins (first rats tunnelled through, then the wood rotted and the whole frame collapsed when muntjac climbed over them). Some dogs’ ashes were scattered there, some cats and rabbits and guinea pigs were buried there. Now it has a plum tree right in the corner, two cherry trees in front, rhubarb, raspberries, gooseberries, red and white currants, a hawthorn hedge behind, far too many prickles and this emerald carpet of stingers throttling everything.

 

[iona]

me too - half of mine are labelled 'pretty tall blue flower' I should really be doing them in latin like "flore caeruleo satis procera"

Just found some seed I apparently saw fit to collect despite labelling it "nicotiana (the tall shit one)"

 

[two sheds]

Just found some seed I apparently saw fit to collect despite labelling it "nicotiana (the tall shit one)"

That would be "unus alta stercore" I believe

 

[campanula]

Yew always comes to mind as a screening tree. It is often spoken of as being slow growing, but this is not the case at all (unlike the lovely, but painfully slow boxwoods). Can grow 2 feet a year, remains evergreen, provides nesting and food and is, after all, one of the pre-eminent sacred trees of mythology. I would, I think, avoid either willow or eucalypts. Willows extensive root system can create some subsidence problems...and you will never grow a straight eucalyptus - within a decade, it will be leaning drunkenly askew.
When advising people what trees to plant (which I do), I generally look for a tree which provides the longest season of interest. So, spring blooms or catkins, summer growth, autumn berries and colour and winter architecture. In an urban garden, the sorbus family will provide all these conditions. Rowans are beautiful trees at all stages of growth, mannerly and graceful, with cheerful berries. I am also fond of amelanchiers - aka snowy mespilus, and finally, in my favourite selection of urban trees, the flowering cherries and crabs should not be scorned as suburban cliches. Resist the temptation to plant a forest tree in a garden.
To refine your choices, tell me more about the space, the soil, the aspect.

 

[planetgeli]

I like the idea of a Yew tree growing 2ft a year. I like even more the idea of it doing so forever. Some of our yews are very old. I'd love to live in a world of 2000ft Yew trees here and there.

 

[campanula]

There was one summer, maybe 25 years ago, when that corner had £200 worth of professional strength Roundup over it... yeah I know...
It’s been a dump for grass cuttings, a muck heap, a chicken run, it’s had a bank of pallet compost bins (first rats tunnelled through, then the wood rotted and the whole frame collapsed when muntjac climbed over them). Some dogs’ ashes were scattered there, some cats and rabbits and guinea pigs were buried there. Now it has a plum tree right in the corner, two cherry trees in front, rhubarb, raspberries, gooseberries, red and white currants, a hawthorn hedge behind, far too many prickles and this emerald carpet of stingers throttling everything.

Glyphosate (RoundUp) will certainly do the business...but will need at least 2 or 3 applications..and timing is of the essence. One in spring, when the first flush of growth is fully underway. One in autumn, just as the plant starts to draw back into the root system and again, the following spring to catch seedlings and regrowth. The problem with dealing with many weeds lies in the reservoir of seeds, collected in the soil. Any disturbance (from new shoots, hoeing or digging) exposes the seeds to light, where they will germinate again. And, of course, your difficulties are compounded by the presence of growing plants you do not wish to be killed by a herbicide. It is possible to get rid of nettles, but will require a fairly sustained effort and management using a heavy duty, light-stopping mulch (cardboard is my material of choice) and some carefully directed herbicides (I use a broadleaf one called Grazon Pro). Those yellow roots do not have a terrible grip on the soil ...it is possible to get rid by sustained digging...but again, not a quick fix.

I am honestly astonished what £200 of RoundIp might be. I pay around £50 for 5 litres of professional glyphosate (480)....which is enough for a couple of years of use. There are ways to enable rapid uptake of the herbicide...such as trampling on the nettles to break the cellular structure. Can give you details of stockists and costs if you like.

Nettle beer is surprisingly delicious.

 

[two sheds]

My old landlady said to me "one year's seeding means seven years' weeding". Many times she said it, many times.

 

[Leafster]

I like the idea of a Yew tree growing 2ft a year. I like even more the idea of it doing so forever. Some of our yews are very old. I'd love to live in a world of 2000ft Yew trees here and there.

I love yew trees and hedging. I planted a yew hedge here once I'd sorted the garden out. I've also got a couple of yew cubes and a yew cylinder that I've been creating. There's something eternal about a yew.

All the lockdowns have prompted me to visit some of the local ancient yews. I've posted about them elsewhere on Urban but here's a few photos...

This one is about 750 years old - a youngster!





This one's the Tandridge Yew - estimates of its age range from 1,000 to 2,500 years old





and finally, the Crowhurst Yew - this one may be as much as 4,000 years old







Yes, that's a door! The hollow inside space was used as a meeting room in the 18th or 19th Century.

 

[campanula]

Thanks for those, Leafster. Thick snow falling at the moment so I am hugely glad I managed a few hours on my plot, yesterday.
I have just come in from hauling my seed pots out of the greenhouse, into the garden...for some extra stratification (after last years dismal germination rates). Watching my pots getting a covering of snow...and imagining those recalcitrant seed coats gradually softening, splitting and revealing the embryonic green shoots of spring.

 

[two sheds]

snowdrops coming out here and loads of bulbs coming up

 

[campanula]

and loads of bulbs coming up

Yep - one of my tasks was clearing away the wild oats from the incipient tulip shoots (and uncovering the primroses and cowslip rosettes from underneath vasty cloaks of goosegrass).

 

[iona]

snowdrops coming out here and loads of bulbs coming up

Daffodils started flowering a week or two down here. Seeing campanula mention snow down her way is only adding to my suspicion that someone's taken advantage of the pandemic to chop Sussex off the rest of the country and tow it further south while hardly anyone's travelling much and likely to notice. Spent most of yesterday and today outside in just a t-shirt and thin hoody and my outdoor chilli plants are leafless now but still very much alive!

I like the idea of a Yew tree growing 2ft a year. I like even more the idea of it doing so forever. Some of our yews are very old. I'd love to live in a world of 2000ft Yew trees here and there.

Vaguely related fact: if every single spore from one giant puffball mushroom germinated, and then every single spore from those puffballs germinated, by the third generation we'd be buried under a mass of fungi 800 times the volume of the Earth. Unless my fag packet maths is badly wrong, you'd need to stack 86610 of your giant yews end to end for the top one to see any sunlight under that many mushrooms

 

[campanula]

Seeing @campanula mention snow down her way is only adding to my suspicion that someone's taken advantage of the pandemic to chop Sussex off the rest of the country and tow it further south while hardly anyone's travelling much and likely to notice. Spent most of yesterday and today outside in just a t-shirt and thin hoody and my outdoor chilli plants are leafless now but still very much alive!

I spent 5 years in Brighton in the 90s...and saw snow once (fleetingly). We all rushed down to the Level to throw snowballs.
Tbf, I was down to a long-sleeved cotton top yesterday...but it's bloody freezy at the moment (although the snow came...and went).

 

[iona]

I spent 5 years in Brighton in the 90s...and saw snow once (fleetingly). We all rushed down to the Level to throw snowballs.
Tbf, I was down to a long-sleeved cotton top yesterday...but it's bloody freezy at the moment (although the snow came...and went).

I'm sure it snowed every single winter I was living outdoors here

 

[campanula]

I'm sure it snowed every single winter I was living outdoors here

Yeah, I remember worrying about you (although you brusquely repudiated any sniff of pity). You at least had a dog back then, right?

 

[iona]

Yeah, I remember worrying about you (although you brusquely repudiated any sniff of pity). You at least had a dog back then, right?

Yeah, for most of that time. Cold weather bothered him much more than me mind!

Sorry for past brusqueness

 

[campanula]

Sorry for past brusqueness

Nah, I know where you were coming from.

 

[campanula]

Anyway, stuck indoors, I started thinking how we do horticulture (at least in our personal plots, gardens and allotments). Back when I first had a plot, my soil, by now, would have been gleaming, conscientiously dug over in the autumn so winter frosts would 'break down the soil structure'. Every bed would have been double dug and turned in and I would have monstrous compost heaps. So different to my current plot, which is proudly verdant with a vast range of annual weeds (goosegrass, creeping charlie, fat hen, lamb's quarters, chickweed), acting like a huge green duvet protecting my precious soil from rain, wind and frosts. These days, my spade is buried somewhere in the back of the shed, the weeds grow fat and lush all winter and when I eventually pull them up, I leave them strewn around on the surface (trash mulch). The worst crime is treading on the beds. I don't even bother with a lot of rotations.
O and pruning. I often don't even bother. And the thing about removing all the topgrowth 'so as not to stress the root system' when we transplant. Don't do that either. Nor do I divide and move stuff in spring and autumn during dormancy. I lift plants in full summer growth, moving them wherever I fancy.
Anyway, just off the top of my head, these are things I do differently.

 

[Leafster]

Anyway, stuck indoors, I started thinking how we do horticulture (at least in our personal plots, gardens and allotments). Back when I first had a plot, my soil, by now, would have been gleaming, conscientiously dug over in the autumn so winter frosts would 'break down the soil structure'. Every bed would have been double dug and turned in and I would have monstrous compost heaps. So different to my current plot, which is proudly verdant with a vast range of annual weeds (goosegrass, creeping charlie, fat hen, lamb's quarters, chickweed), acting like a huge green duvet protecting my precious soil from rain, wind and frosts. These days, my spade is buried somewhere in the back of the shed, the weeds grow fat and lush all winter and when I eventually pull them up, I leave them strewn around on the surface (trash mulch). The worst crime is treading on the beds. I don't even bother with a lot of rotations.
O and pruning. I often don't even bother. And the thing about removing all the topgrowth 'so as not to stress the root system' when we transplant. Don't do that either. Nor do I divide and move stuff in spring and autumn during dormancy. I lift plants in full summer growth, moving them wherever I fancy.
Anyway, just off the top of my head, these are things I do differently.

I was only thinking in the week that the veg beds I've been developing over the last two or three years look a complete mess. I think my professional gardener grandfather would be turning in his grave!

Still, in amongst all the weeds there's harvestable (is that a word?) cabbages, kale and parsnips. There is, I think one lettuce which may have a few edible leaves on it.

Part of me wants to go out there and restore order but...

 

[Leafster]

I’ve just checked and the lettuce is no more but I’d forgotten there was some Pak Choi with some leaves that may find their way into a stir fry.

 

[iona]

I never had a conscientious newbie gardener/allotmenteer stage I do all the things campanula mentioned, other than eschewing crop rotation coz I enjoy planning and writing lists (but happily use the same soil in containers for years with just some compost heap compost added occasionally) and pruning which I really enjoy doing when I actually get round to it. I stick perennial weeds straight on the compost heap too, apart from a couple of things like bindweed which get drowned first.

Just scored a load of gravel grids off freecycle to make a base for my new shed

 

[campanula]

I’ve just checked and the lettuce is no more but I’d forgotten there was some Pak Choi with some leaves that may find their way into a stir fry.

I pIcked a bunch of parsley (there's always heaps of that) and yep, there were a couple of lettuce-y things I ignored. I don't love to cook, get terribly bored with vegetables (and, as a northern peasant, don't much like them. I do grow some, just to keep the moaners on my site at bay (and love my potatoes) but really, I treat the whole plot as a sort of changeable nursery where I can indulge a series of flowery obsessions (which can vary from year to year). I did grow a LOT of fruit, when my offspring were younger but over time, the space has dwindled as shrubs and perennials have taken over, so most annuals (edibles and flowers) have to be shoehorned in amongst the paeonies, asters, salvias. and especially the roses. A quarter of one of the plots just looks like grass (my wildflower meadow). I love it...and a lot of flowers have colonised most parts of the site...but it is often an unruly mess.
I wouldn't have invited any of my customers to visit, when I did more paid work..and I have become a lot more relaxed about weeds since having a wood.