The end of cash?

[hash tag]

My leaving present today was a few notes.

 

[PR1Berske]

First £1 coin featuring King Charles III enters circulation

Design with bees on reverse, part of collection inspired by plants and animals, was voted people’s favourite

www.theguardian.com

 

[TopCat]

Was at a festival on the weekend. No cash excepted. Even the dealers had two cash app’s minimum and preferred a transfer.

 

[moochedit]

Some clickbait headlines about tesco going cashless today:

Tesco bans cash payments across the UK in major change for shoppers

Tesco has introduced a new payment method in its cafes, which it says will reduce waiting times and improve the shopping experience, but critics have called the move 'bonkers'

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

But it is actually just the Tesco cafes going cashless at a few stores (not the main store itself):

Tesco has made a 'bonkers' change to using cash - so we tested it out

Tesco has made 40 of its cafes cashless in a move that has been described as 'bonkers'

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

I don't think the tesco near me has a cafe.

 

[InArduisFouette]

local 'news papers' and their endless clickbait journey to get subscriptions fro the Guilible and poorly eduicated C2DE boomers

 

[PR1Berske]

From the Telegraph

The Royal Mint has left millions of unwanted 1p and 2p coins abandoned in warehouses across Britain as speculation over the future of copper coins grows.

Roughly 260m surplus copper coins worth around £4m are piling up after being stored indefinitely in cash centres across the country, industry data shows.

This includes roughly 150m – or two thirds – of all the 225m 2p coins in the UK as well as 110m of the 200m 1p coins that have been minted.

The amount of surplus cash is now so large that the total volume is the equivalent of more than 2,000 washing machine-sized cages – each weighing a tonne – filled with coins.

It also means that more copper coins are stored in these warehouses than are in circulation.


Surveys suggest that more than half of 1p and 2p coins that enter circulation are used once before ending up in a jam jar or storage, while one in 12 are thrown in the bin.

The Royal Mint, the official maker of British coins, has not recycled or melted down surplus coins since it closed its smelting facility more than a decade ago.

Unlike the Bank of England, which swaps damaged or mutilated banknotes from the general public, the Royal Mint only accepts damaged coins collected by banks.

The Treasury has not instructed the Royal Mint to make any coins this year amid reports that it did not expect to order any new 1p and 2p coins to be minted for the next few years.

It has previously said it has “no plans” to change the mix of UK coins in the system, of which there are estimated to be 27bn in circulation.

Royal Mint data show 30m 1p coins were minted in 2022 and none in 2023. There have been no 2 pence pieces minted since 2021. By contrast, more than a billion pennies were minted in 2000.

UK Finance declined to comment on the coin data but a spokesman said: “The industry is committed to the sustained use of cash. However, we really need to make sure that we have the right type of notes and coins that people want to use. And we should be thinking about how we might recycle some of the current coins in circulation.”

A spokesman for The Royal Mint said: “The Royal Mint only accepts damaged circulating coins. These are processed to ensure the value of the metal can be recovered.”

Previous chancellors have considered scrapping copper coins. Philip Hammond launched a consultation in 2018 about the mix of coins in circulation after branding copper coins “obsolete”.

 

[lazythursday]

A substantial portion of the surplus copper coins are stored in two wastepaper bins in my wardrobe. I suppose scrapping them will force me to do something with them, but it might be easier to melt them down than count the bloody things.

 

[Elpenor]

Gave all my coins below 5p in value to the charity bucket collection at rugby yesterday. There was only a handful, but they will use them

 

[MrSki]

A substantial portion of the surplus copper coins are stored in two wastepaper bins in my wardrobe. I suppose scrapping them will force me to do something with them, but it might be easier to melt them down than count the bloody things.

If they are coppers then just weigh them. What they do in banks

 

[lazythursday]

If they are coppers then just weigh them. What they do in banks

The problem is they are mixed up with random foreign coins, drawing pins, paperclips etc.

 

[liquidindian]

I thought this was interesting: Cashless Societies May Still Have As Much Crime

Particularly this point:
UK research indicates that families who are trapped in the cash economy are hundreds of pounds per annum worse off than families who are not. The reasons are multiple: the cost of cash acquisition, the inability to pay utilities through direct debit, exclusion from online deals and a variety of losses.

(There’s something unfair about this. People who choose to exist in a cash economy to avoid taxes, such as drug dealers, are cross-subsidized by the rest of us whereas people who have no choice but to exist in a cash economy are not cross-subsidized at all.)

More could be done to help people who rely on cash I'm sure, but those tiresome "use it or lose it" campaigners are not just annoying, they're costing people money.

 

[rasputin]

those tiresome "use it or lose it" campaigners are not just annoying, they're costing people money.

So true.

And one of their core arguments makes no sense - they claim that the government could "programme" digital money so that it instantly loses all value, but don't seem to understand that exactly the same is true of physical cash. As the Reserve Bank of India showed a few years ago when it withdrew 500 and 1000 rupee denominated notes without warning.

India withdraws 500 and 1,000 rupee notes in effort to fight corruption

Prime minister says country’s highest value banknotes will be taken out of circulation as part of clampdown on ‘black money’

www.theguardian.com

 

[brogdale]

So true.

And one of their core arguments makes no sense - they claim that the government could "programme" digital money so that it instantly loses all value, but don't seem to understand that exactly the same is true of physical cash. As the Reserve Bank of India showed a few years ago when it withdrew 500 and 1000 rupee denominated notes without warning.

India withdraws 500 and 1,000 rupee notes in effort to fight corruption

Prime minister says country’s highest value banknotes will be taken out of circulation as part of clampdown on ‘black money’

www.theguardian.com

Have to say that I support the retention of cash but don’t recognise that conspiracy theory line as a core argument.

I think the industry insider article posted by @liquidian was really about those excluded from the banking system. I’m sure that most people with a bank account realise that they have the choice to pay digitally or in cash.

 

[rasputin]

Have to say that I support the retention of cash but don’t recognise that conspiracy theory line as a core argument.

I expect I spend too much time on the wrong websites.

In fact the principle of retaining cash is supported both by the Bank of England and commercial banks in their public statements. The problem is that cash usage is declining as more and more people turn away from it, which makes it more difficult to justify the costs of cash infrastructure such as ATMs and over the counter access.

 

[brogdale]

I expect I spend too much time on the wrong websites.

In fact the principle of retaining cash is supported both by the Bank of England and commercial banks in their public statements. The problem is that cash usage is declining as more and more people turn away from it, which makes it more difficult to justify the costs of cash infrastructure such as ATMs and over the counter access.

Yeah, we’ve been over trends in cash usage before on this thread. Undeniably cash use is on a dramatic downward trend, but recent evidence suggests that trajectory may have slowed or even reversed.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

I'm ashamed I didn't think of this before, but it's something else that makes protection of cash vital. Abusive exes can track you down more easily via a bank statement.

Cashless businesses can be dangerous for abuse victims, experts warn

Research shows Britons do not want to move towards a cashless society for many reasons

inews.co.uk

 

[rasputin]

I'm ashamed I didn't think of this before, but it's something else that makes protection of cash vital. Abusive exes can track you down more easily via a bank statement.

Cashless businesses can be dangerous for abuse victims, experts warn

Research shows Britons do not want to move towards a cashless society for many reasons

inews.co.uk

It's a very relevant point, I agree. But I'm sorry to report that from my own experience the careless handling of personal data by the under-resourced court system and housing associations present a bigger risk on that front.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

It's a very relevant point, I agree. But I'm sorry to report that from my own experience the careless handling of personal data by the under-resourced court system and housing associations present a bigger risk on that front.

That too.

 

[liquidindian]

Some banks have been proactive about this. Banks aren’t dealing with financial abuse. Monzo has an answer

I am not convinced that the risk of financial abuse is a core concern for many cash campaigners, beyond being a handy "yeah but worrabout" argument.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I had my first homeless person asking for a contactless transfer to their phone last night.

 

[skyscraper101]

Apparently Gen Z are here to save the day for cash with your latest viral TikTok trend... "Cash Stuffing"

https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/08/20/cashstuffing-the-tiktok-trend-helping-people-save-money-during-the-cost-of-living-crisis

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I had my first homeless person asking for a contactless transfer to their phone last night.

How does that work then? I didn't know that was possible in the UK without extra hardware and an account.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

How does that work then? I didn't know that was possible in the UK without extra hardware and an account.

I’m not sure because I was a bit pissed and didn’t really understand the security of it all. So did not participate.

It looked like you could key in an amount and the presumably do a transfer with Apple Pay or something?

 

[InArduisFouette]

Apparently Gen Z are here to save the day for cash with your latest viral TikTok trend... "Cash Stuffing"

https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/08/20/cashstuffing-the-tiktok-trend-helping-people-save-money-during-the-cost-of-living-crisis

which will cost someone hundreds of pounds a year given there are easy access savings accounts with 4% or better interest rates

 

[hash tag]

Cash is Not finished yet
BBC News - Post Office handles record amount of cash

Post Office handles record amount of cash

The increasing use of the Post Office to handle cash comes as bank branch closures continue.

www.bbc.com

 

[brogdale]

Cash is Not finished yet
BBC News - Post Office handles record amount of cash

Post Office handles record amount of cash

The increasing use of the Post Office to handle cash comes as bank branch closures continue.

www.bbc.com

Not quite clear from the article whether or not this signals anything other than the banks closing their branches?

 

[Winot]

Took an unregistered cab back to Brixton from Haggerston at 4am last night. Didn't have any cash but the delightful driver was happy with a bank transfer

 

[kabbes]

Not quite clear from the article whether or not this signals anything other than the banks closing their branches?

Also, all else being equal, inflation means that every year should be a record year for handling cash unless the use of cash is shrinking

 

[Elpenor]

Not cash related as such but the rugby club has introduced ticketing via an app (they have been cashless for a few years) with very little notice

So you now have to buy tickets exclusively via the app - and not the club website - use the app to scan in at the turnstyle. This means using a smartphone and having a email address etc. then transfer any tickets bought for other people to them via the app. No facility to print at home anymore. No paper tickets basically. A few of these ticket apps use QR codes that regenerate every few seconds to prevent screenshotting / fraud etc so perhaps it’s like this

if you have kids with you or someone who may not have a smartphone then you have to pass the phone back through the turnstyle so they can scan their way through.

If you - for example - go to matches with someone who doesn’t have a smartphone and they don’t arrive with you (an example given on the fans Facebook page is of someone’s elderly dad who turns up on his own but their child sorts the tickets, printing at home and distributing before the match ) then they have to pay £5 at the match day ticket office to print a copy.

There is minimal phone reception at the ground (I lose connection half a mile away and don’t regain it till I walk back to

There is a lot of disquiet about this. I am a season ticket holder so this doesn’t affect me till next season - though I’ll need to buy via the app if we get through to the knockout stages in Europe. As currently I have a credit card sized smart card on a lanyard. But if I forget it - as I did last season once - then I need to get the ticket office to print. Perhaps paying £5 too (I wasn’t charged last year)

I suppose with the app there is less chance I’ll forget my phone rather than the lanyard.

The payment method hasn’t changed - still card only for buying tickets - it’s just the way we gain access with those tickets.

Edit and the tin foil brigade latching on to this too

 

[brogdale]

Not cash related as such but the rugby club has introduced ticketing via an app (they have been cashless for a few years) with very little notice

So you now have to buy tickets exclusively via the app - and not the club website - use the app to scan in at the turnstyle. This means using a smartphone and having a email address etc. then transfer any tickets bought for other people to them via the app. No facility to print at home anymore. No paper tickets basically. A few of these ticket apps use QR codes that regenerate every few seconds to prevent screenshotting / fraud etc so perhaps it’s like this

if you have kids with you or someone who may not have a smartphone then you have to pass the phone back through the turnstyle so they can scan their way through.

If you - for example - go to matches with someone who doesn’t have a smartphone and they don’t arrive with you (an example given on the fans Facebook page is of someone’s elderly dad who turns up on his own but their child sorts the tickets, printing at home and distributing before the match ) then they have to pay £5 at the match day ticket office to print a copy.

There is minimal phone reception at the ground (I lose connection half a mile away and don’t regain it till I walk back to

There is a lot of disquiet about this. I am a season ticket holder so this doesn’t affect me till next season - though I’ll need to buy via the app if we get through to the knockout stages in Europe. As currently I have a credit card sized smart card on a lanyard. But if I forget it - as I did last season once - then I need to get the ticket office to print. Perhaps paying £5 too (I wasn’t charged last year)

I suppose with the app there is less chance I’ll forget my phone rather than the lanyard.

The payment method hasn’t changed - still card only for buying tickets - it’s just the way we gain access with those tickets.

Edit and the tin foil brigade latching on to this too

View attachment 441377

That doesn’t sound very inclusive