The Cycling Chat Thread
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Cid
Proper break this time
Depends what you're riding... a road bike is designed for you to be in a (relatively) aero position sat down putting out an even pace for long periods of time. MTB you're moving about on the bike more, riding for shorter periods, in a more forgiving position. Just different demands physiologically.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
Another noob question from me...
I've got a Hiplock sold secure gold chain lock that I use, but have seen a few other sold secure gold D-lock ones that have an extension, something like this:
The brand is irrelevant for the purposes of my question (I think, though please correct me if I'm wrong), but the extensions all seem to be less theft-proof than the main lock. Is that ok, insurance-wise?
I've just noticed [
@ self] that my insurance stipulates both a gold lock through the frame, and also having a lock through any quick-release wheel/s. Would the weedier extensions that come with gold locks for the frame be deemed suitable for securing a wheel, if I had to make a claim?
What's a failsafe-ish way to eliminate that aspect of an insurer trying to get out of paying up?
I've got a Hiplock sold secure gold chain lock that I use, but have seen a few other sold secure gold D-lock ones that have an extension, something like this:
The brand is irrelevant for the purposes of my question (I think, though please correct me if I'm wrong), but the extensions all seem to be less theft-proof than the main lock. Is that ok, insurance-wise?
I've just noticed [
@ self] that my insurance stipulates both a gold lock through the frame, and also having a lock through any quick-release wheel/s. Would the weedier extensions that come with gold locks for the frame be deemed suitable for securing a wheel, if I had to make a claim?What's a failsafe-ish way to eliminate that aspect of an insurer trying to get out of paying up?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I just got one of those too.
Insurers would be reassured if you used one properly.
Insurers would be reassured if you used one properly.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
(I also have a very heavy ‘wearable’ belt/chain to use if parked briefly outdoors, as I just feel better if both wheels and different parts of the frame are secured)
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
You put the cable through the wheels and the loops on the end fit onto the arms of the d-lock. Kryptonite are a good brand.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Just make sure you still lock the frame to something with the d-lock!
I've seen some bikes locked where you could just cut the cable and take the bike, leaving the d lock behind, safely locked to the cable and nothing else.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
Or, to avoid carrying the cable, you swap the quick release levers on your wheels for lockable security nuts. Just like a car. Insurers would also be happy with this. The nut can only be undone with a uniquely shaped socket which you undo with a tiny spanner. You can also do this with a quick-release saddle. You can have matching nuts for the wheels and saddle, so you only need to carry a single socket:
The nut is on the left, the socket is on the right:
I've been doing this since forever, with Pitlock ones. Superb German quality. Other brands are available. You get a spare socket in the pack. If you lose both sockets and the secret code which enables their replacement, you probably have to destroy the nut with a drill to get it off. I keep one socket in my tiny tool kit (next to my tiny spanner) and hide the spare socket on the bike (firmly attached) just in case I manage to drop the socket down a drain while mending a puncture.
A packet of Pitlock. This one even has a security bolt for the headset, to stop people stealing your forks. Note the secret code.
The above costs £55 or more.
The nut is on the left, the socket is on the right:
I've been doing this since forever, with Pitlock ones. Superb German quality. Other brands are available. You get a spare socket in the pack. If you lose both sockets and the secret code which enables their replacement, you probably have to destroy the nut with a drill to get it off. I keep one socket in my tiny tool kit (next to my tiny spanner) and hide the spare socket on the bike (firmly attached) just in case I manage to drop the socket down a drain while mending a puncture.
A packet of Pitlock. This one even has a security bolt for the headset, to stop people stealing your forks. Note the secret code.
The above costs £55 or more.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
So even though the cable is easier to cut through than the d-lock, the presence of the d-lock means insurers are a-ok with it? In other words, it's ok to secure the wheel with something less secure than gold, as long as the frame is secured with gold (if your insurance requires gold)?
I understand how to use the lock, but am unsure about what insurers mean in their small print.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
In other other words, does the wheel lock have to be as thick and hard to cut through as the rest of the lock in order to comply, or does it gain gold status, whatever its hardiness, based on the status of the main lock, if they are sold together as a piece?
((((me and my communication difficulties))))
((((y'all and trying to understand me))))
((((me and my communication difficulties))))
((((y'all and trying to understand me))))
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure about the policy wording, you can always get two d-locks and put them through the wheels, with the back one going through the frame.
Ultimately though, it's about where you lock it up, cctv, security guards etc. That's more important.
Ultimately though, it's about where you lock it up, cctv, security guards etc. That's more important.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
I think you may be the first person ever to ask this question. It's a good question though. I've always assumed that your post before last is correct, but insurers being what they are, everyone should probably check their small print.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
Thieves seem to get away with using an angle grinder undisturbed even in apparently secure locations. You can't win. All you can do is improve your odds a bit. Lock the bike near a more attractive one, position the d-locks(s) so that it's hard to place an angle grinder on them, add an alarmed cable lock for laptops (puny but noisy), uglify your bike with tape and dirt, take the saddle or wheel with you to make it harder for a thief to ride it away.
I'm going to try the rinko method with my new Parlee. Rinko is the Japanese practice of dismantling your bike and putting it in a bag. You have to do this to take a bike on a bullet train. They remove some or all of: forks, handlebars, saddle, wheels, mudguards and pedals, and put them in a very thin bag, a bit like a suit bag. Various fittings are available to speed up the disassembly. If (and it's a big if) I could find a way to do it really fast, maybe the bike could go on my back and I wouldn't present an obstacle when wandering around the places where you're not allowed to take your bike?
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Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
All of that yes, absolutely, about minimising risk of theft. I'm coming from a position of recent experience, though, of policy falling very far from the wayside of common sense and what should be the case. (Not entirely cycling/insurer related, but close enough.) I can be as right as I like, but I won't get compensated unless the policy agrees.
Different policies will have different clauses. I want to get an idea of what it means to have a gold lock and also secure the wheel, given that the two parts seem to have different degrees of fallibility.
It is the story of my life that I'm (told I'm the) the first person to ask about this or that. Wtf. I'm obviously a complete fucking freak but i don't get why.
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David Clapson
Well-Known Member
Being a freak is good. Insurers are ruthless at denying claims because you've lost the spare key or receipt for the lock.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Thieves rarely bother to cut the cable just to steal a wheel, so long as the bike itself is d-locked to something secure you’ll be fine.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
All sorts of other things, but the relevant bit for this is: "The bicycle must be secured to an immovable object through the frame and any quick release wheels with an approved lock."
The FAQ on their website then says, under the heading 'Do I need to have an approved lock?'
Yes your lock should be a Thatcham approved lock for cycles up to the value of £1500 alternatively a rated Sold Secure lock dependent on your bicycle value:
- Insured value under £500 require a Bronze rated lock
- Insured value under £1000 require a Silver rated lock
- Insured value over £1000 require a Gold or Diamond rated lock
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
I'm not asking whether I'll be fine. I know that I probably will be. But I want to know what the policy is.
I've learned through various channels that I don't want to leave important things to trust. It doesn't stop me trusting, but will help me cover the times when I'm wrong.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Pretty sure the wheels on my bike would have originally cost more than the frame did (£1100 R-SYS, think the current versions are £1400) but my security method is never to lock it anywhere, I have a shittyish bike for that sort of thing.
My old ugly brown pub bike was worth less than my lock but had an unfortunate incident with a Fiesta turning through queuing traffic, so my current pub bike isn’t quite as rubbish and I still get anxious locking it, usually put the kryptonite through the front wheel and frame, the back wheel isn’t quick release so not too worried about that, not living in London these days.
My old ugly brown pub bike was worth less than my lock but had an unfortunate incident with a Fiesta turning through queuing traffic, so my current pub bike isn’t quite as rubbish and I still get anxious locking it, usually put the kryptonite through the front wheel and frame, the back wheel isn’t quick release so not too worried about that, not living in London these days.
Cid
Proper break this time
Hmm... yeah, that's not very clear. Usually you pass the lock through the rear wheel and frame... To comply with that I think you'd have to either have a separate lock for the front wheel, or remove it and add to the lock cluster at the back. This will depend on how easy the wheels are to remove and type of bike...
Or
My guess, though, is that this may have more to do with individual wheel theft and claims based on that. If the whole bike in the second pic is nicked, it's nicked regardless iyswim. But that's a guess. Probably your best bet is to ask the insurers, and get confirmation in writing.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
Thank you. Yes, I'm thinking I probably need a second lock, but will also speak to the insurers.Hmm... yeah, that's not very clear. Usually you pass the lock through the rear wheel and frame... To comply with that I think you'd have to either have a separate lock for the front wheel, or remove it and add to the lock cluster at the back. This will depend on how easy the wheels are to remove and type of bike...
Or
My guess, though, is that this may have more to do with individual wheel theft and claims based on that. If the whole bike in the second pic is nicked, it's nicked regardless iyswim. But that's a guess. Probably your best bet is to ask the insurers, and get confirmation in writing.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Their policy will be spelt out on their, ehrm, policy…
Cid
Proper break this time
As David Clapson points out it does also specifically say 'quick release' so if it's thru-axle (bigger axles which screw in, often on MTBs, gravel bikes, road bikes with disc brakes), or if you replace the quick release with a secure skewer you should also technically fulfil it. Actually technically I suppose you'd fulfil it just with an allen key skewer. Technically.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
Aaaarrrgh.
I'm asking: what size/rating lock should go through the wheel?
Same as the frame lock deemed gold?
I'm asking: what size/rating lock should go through the wheel?
Same as the frame lock deemed gold?
If it said, I wouldn't be asking! (Or someone would be able to point out to me what the general terms mean, if I've missed something.)
Cid
Proper break this time
Break it down like this:
"The bicycle must be secured to an immovable object through the frame and any quick release wheels with an approved lock."
Bicycle secured to object is easy. As is through the frame (securing it just by the wheel isn't going to cut it).
Then we've got the wheel clause... It specifies quick release, so if the wheel isn't quick release, none of this applies. That's why you might be fine with what David suggested, or with axles that aren't quick release in the first place.
If your wheels are quick release, you then get to the bit about securing them. It uses 'and' and 'any', so I think you've really got to interpret this as saying that quick release wheels need to have the protection of a rated lock. The cable won't be enough.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't trust anyone's interpretation of the policy except the insurer's. Their wording seems ambiguous to me. Either they're sloppy or they've deliberately set a trap.
In any case, two d-locks are an excellent idea. Very discouraging for a thief: twice as much time and battery and cutting disc wear. Typically lighter than one d-lock and a cable. These Kryptonite minis are Gold, £35 and about 1 kg Kryptonite Evolution Mini-5 U-lock - Black/Orange : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors Not long, but the shortness can make it harder to get an angle grinder positioned right.
In any case, two d-locks are an excellent idea. Very discouraging for a thief: twice as much time and battery and cutting disc wear. Typically lighter than one d-lock and a cable. These Kryptonite minis are Gold, £35 and about 1 kg Kryptonite Evolution Mini-5 U-lock - Black/Orange : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors Not long, but the shortness can make it harder to get an angle grinder positioned right.
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Cid
Proper break this time
Yeah, it's shit wording and a bit surprising tbh. This is why I was wondering whether there was any additional small print... It'd be crap as a trap, because anyone with nouse to challenge it could do so effectively - consumers get a bit more latitude when they sign things. If the contract isn't clear, it's more likely to work in the consumer's favour.
But yes, it would be a bit of an effort to do that, and best just to get it in writing.
