The current situation in Venezuela

[1%er]

I think Santa Marta (known locally as Dona Marta, if we are talking about the same place, it is in the south area) has never been a "dangerous" favela, it has been cashing in on tourism for a long time. iirc that is the place Michel Jackson did his video many years before pacification started.

 

[Favelado]

It was a dangerous favela at one point. That's not true. It was subject to gang invasions and shoot outs much like others. It's only one example. I can cite a dozen or so others if you like.

 

[Idris2002]

It was a dangerous favela at one point. That's not true. It was subject to gang invasions and shoot outs much like others. It's only one example. I can cite a dozen or so others if you like.

Genuine question for you and 1%er : how much variation is there between informal settlements or whatever you call them from one Latin American country to another? Is a Brazilian favela pretty much the same sort of urban environment as its Venezeulan equivalent, or would there be significant differences between them? (and if the latter, would such differences make the outcomes of e.g. violent police incursions different in both cases?)

 

[Favelado]

PS. Why don't we start a "pacification watch" thread. It's an interesting topic and we're derailing

 

[Favelado]

Genuine question for you and 1%er : how much variation is there between informal settlements or whatever you call them from one Latin American country to another? Is a Brazilian favela pretty much the same sort of urban environment as its Venezeulan equivalent, or would there be significant differences between them? (and if the latter, would such differences make the outcomes of e.g. violent police incursions different in both cases?)

I lived in a favela in rio and visited a dozen others but 1 per center will have to tell you about other countries. The important factor would be whether gangs act as de facto governments in similar communities in other countries or just operate out of them.

 

[1%er]

Genuine question for you and 1%er : how much variation is there between informal settlements or whatever you call them from one Latin American country to another? Is a Brazilian favela pretty much the same sort of urban environment as its Venezeulan equivalent, or would there be significant differences between them? (and if the latter, would such differences make the outcomes of e.g. violent police incursions different in both cases?)

They are all similar in my experience, filled in the main with hard working people who can't afford to live anywhere else, it is interesting to see people who do make enough money to move out don't want to in many cases, it is their community and they want to remain living in it. In my experience favelas have a much tighter community that other places in most cities where people live behind high walls with armed guards and electric fences and don't in many cases even know who lives next door.

 

[Favelado]

More than 50% of Rocinha residents recently surveyed expressed a wish to stay there. There are wonderful things about some of the communities, community spirit being one of them. What they need are infrastructure, decent healthcare, sanitation, and education. What they definitely don't need is Vidigal style gentrification nor bulldozers.

 

[1%er]

elbows he is an article about the situation in hospitals, while it is written from a US point of view, most of the quotes are from health workers and inline with what I have seen while delivering medical and nappies to hospitals.

“The death of a baby is our daily bread,” said Dr. Osleidy Camejo

The economic crisis in this country has exploded into a public health emergency, claiming the lives of untold numbers of Venezuelans.

The rate of death among babies under a month old increased more than a hundredfold in public hospitals run by the Health Ministry, according to a government report provided by lawmakers.

The rate of death among new mothers in those hospitals increased by almost five times in the same period, according to the report.

So without water, gloves, soap or antibiotics, a group of surgeons prepared to remove an appendix that was about to burst, even though the operating room was still covered in another patient’s blood.

Even in the capital, only two of nine operating rooms are functioning at the J. M. de los Ríos Children’s Hospital.

There are people dying for lack of medicine, children dying of malnutrition and others dying because there are no medical personnel

 

[extra dry]

ELI5: The current situation in Venezuela • /r/explainlikeimfive

just had a quick look over this thread on Reddit.

 

[Idris2002]

Re: this point from a NYT editorial the other day:

Violence has soared as armed gangs loyal to the government roam the streets. During the first three months of this year, 4,696 people were murdered in Venezuela, according to the government, and in 2015 more than 17,700 were killed. The three-month death toll is higher than the 3,545 civilians killed last year in Afghanistan, a record number.​

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/17/o...spiral.html?smid=tw-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=0

The endemic violence is one major sign that Maduro's government has shat the bed in a big way - but is there any more information on this bit about "armed gangs loyal to the government" roaming the streets, and implicitly producing the soaring violence? Are they talking about the paramilitary policing operations in the working class quarters that we were talking about up the thread or something else? (I assume it's something else given that they talk about gangs rather than police, even if the difference between the two may well be merely academic).

 

[Idris2002]

Even Counterpunch gets it (good article, btw):

Venezuela and the Silence of the Left

 

[1%er]

According to news reports half a million soldiers and members of the militia have been taking part in "exercises" over the last few days, I wonder if this could mean that they are about to take control in a coup or take sides with the President or the majority government. There are daily protests now in many of the larger cities and the clashes with the police are becoming much more violent.

It is difficult to know which group (if any) the armed forces would back. After the attempted coup against Chavez around 2002 the top officers in the army were purged and Chavez loyalists were put in their place (but that was 15 years ago), the vast majority of the lower ranks come from poor and workingclass families.

The army does hold some political appointments in Venezuela and many ex-army officers move into politics when they retire, but do they really want to support Maduro, public the army says it has "absolute loyalty" to the President, I'd love to know what they are saying in private.

 

[Coolfonz]

As some kind of leftist i can happily say Chavez was a machismo-filled arsehole and his hair brained semi-isolationist economic polices - the insane dollar peg central to this - betrayed not only the Venezuelans but left politics as well. Left wingers everywhere should say this. Yes in the early years health and education expanded, great, but the dollar peg destroyed that country and even now they won't unwind it, it's the only thing that can stop complete chaos. All this during $100/bl oil years. Where has it gone? And PDVSA is teetering too...

Does Venezuela’s Crisis Prove Socialism Doesn’t Work?

 

[Idris2002]

As some kind of leftist i can happily say Chavez was a machismo-filled arsehole and his hair brained semi-isolationist economic polices - the insane dollar peg central to this - betrayed not only the Venezuelans but left politics as well. Left wingers everywhere should say this. Yes in the early years health and education expanded, great, but the dollar peg destroyed that country and even now they won't unwind it, it's the only thing that can stop complete chaos. All this during $100/bl oil years. Where has it gone? And PDVSA is teetering too...

Does Venezuela’s Crisis Prove Socialism Doesn’t Work?

Excellent link, thanks for that.

 

[1%er]

As some kind of leftist i can happily say Chavez was a machismo-filled arsehole and his hair brained semi-isolationist economic polices - the insane dollar peg central to this - betrayed not only the Venezuelans but left politics as well. Left wingers everywhere should say this. Yes in the early years health and education expanded, great, but the dollar peg destroyed that country and even now they won't unwind it, it's the only thing that can stop complete chaos. All this during $100/bl oil years. Where has it gone? And PDVSA is teetering too...

Does Venezuela’s Crisis Prove Socialism Doesn’t Work?

You are right with hindsight, but it must be remembered why Chavez pegged the Bolivar to the Dollar in the first place. It was as a reaction to the right-wing again trying to bring down his government with a general strike in 2002/3, not lead by workers but lead by business owners.

It was the right cause of action at the time to defend the Venezuelan economy, to ensure the value of their international currency reserves and to shield nationalized domestic industries that imported raw materials. It must also be remembered that at the time the rich we sending so much money abroad that it was destabilizing the economy. The general strike was choking off Venezuela's income from exporting oil which at the time made up about 50% of the governments income.

Had they stopped pegging the Bolivar to the Dollar at the right time things may have turned out very differently than they are today. There were many other problems that should have been addressed, such as speeding up the flow of Dollars from the government to industry so they weren't waiting months to pay their bills to foreign suppliers and stopping the corruption in the unofficial foreign currency market. Many in his own government were obtaining currency in Dollars at the official exchange rate cheaply and selling the cash on the black market at highly inflated prices.

 

[Coolfonz]

I'm not saying good things weren't done. That the Venezuelan right aren't particularly ugly and murderous. Or that currency pegs can't work, Switzerland did one more recently. But it is obvious the Venezuelan peg was killing the economy. Look at Ecuador, Bolivia and Uruguay all various shades of left, all with basic functioning economies. It's depressing shit tbh, all that good work is being undone in a short space of time.

 

[1%er]

I'm not saying good things weren't done. That the Venezuelan right aren't particularly ugly and murderous. Or that currency pegs can't work, Switzerland did one more recently. But it is obvious the Venezuelan peg was killing the economy. Look at Ecuador, Bolivia and Uruguay all various shades of left, all with basic functioning economies. It's depressing shit tbh, all that good work is being undone in a short space of time.

The Swiss pegging to the Euro cost them billions, the day they stopped the Swiss Franc went up massively and I got a free lunch from a Swiss friend

I'm not saying you are wrong about the Bolivar to the Dollar link, I'm agreeing with you. They kept it for far to long that was the problem.

 

[Idris2002]

Venezuela nearing the end, says Marxist economist Michael Roberts:

Venezuela: near the end?

 

[Idris2002]

Hunger.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/w...ntSlide=12&entrySlide=1&pgtype=imageslideshow

 

[Treacle Toes]

Hunger.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/world/americas/venezuelans-ransack-stores-as-hunger-stalks-crumbling-nation.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=1&module=Slide&region=SlideShowTopBar&version=SlideCard-12&action=Click&contentCollection=Americas&slideshowTitle=A Starving Country&currentSlide=12&entrySlide=1&pgtype=imageslideshow

It's fucking awful.

CUMANÁ, Venezuela — With delivery trucks under constant attack, the nation’s food is now transported under armed guard. Soldiers stand watch over bakeries. The police fire rubber bullets at desperate mobs storming grocery stores, pharmacies and butcher shops. A 4-year-old girl was shot to death as street gangs fought over food.

In the last two weeks alone, more than 50 food riots, protests and mass looting have erupted around the country. Scores of businesses have been stripped bare or destroyed. At least five people have been killed.

 

[Libertad]

What a mess.

 

[frogwoman]

 

[bluescreen]

How does a country recover from a situation like this? Serious question.

 

[Idris2002]

"if the working class does not want to continue losing, it must make Maduro fall"

“It’s finished” – by Nicolás Grimaldi

 

[Treacle Toes]

Excuse the AJ dramatics please...

 

[teqniq]

Quite possibly an indication of how things have deteriorated

 

[1%er]

Thursday will be an interesting day in Venezuela as many groups from across the political spectrum have called for street protests to call for a referendum on removing Maduro, who himself is claiming that any demonstration by his starving citizens is an American back coup attempt. Foreign news crews are being stopped from entering the country and ones already there are being deported. Police and pro-Maduro supporters have been seen leaving Caracas in an effort to stop protest groups from entering the city by stopping them miles away.

Thousands of people who work for the government have been sacked because they signed a petition calling for the referendum, hundreds of thousands have crossed into Columbia since the board was reopened, so they can get basic food and medicine and Venezuelan boarded guards have now been told to turn back aid sent from people in Brazil.

This report from AP sums up what millions of working people are having to suffer

 

[Idris2002]

CNN accuses at least one Venezuelan embassy of selling Ven passports, to customers who include Hezbollah types:

Venezuela may have given passports to people with ties to terrorism - CNN.com

 

[Riklet]

My Venezuelan mate from Isla Margarita says it's a fucking mess and he's now been in Brasil for 2 years. Everyone who can get out already has apparently. And he's pro-Chavez and socialism.

That said, despite everything, he told me he's looking forward to going back next month for all of March and Venezuela is still a great country to visit.

 

[1%er]

My Venezuelan mate from Isla Margarita says it's a fucking mess and he's now been in Brasil for 2 years. Everyone who can get out already has apparently. And he's pro-Chavez and socialism.

That said, despite everything, he told me he's looking forward to going back next month for all of March and Venezuela is still a great country to visit.

Brazil is filling up with Venezuelans and they are slowly making their way south, many rich are just going to Spain and waiting it out.

I see that Maduro has got his friends in the Supreme Court to take over legislative powers from the National Assembly, desperate measures by a desperate man. Someone needs to remind Maduro that the Bolivian Revolution isn't about leaving your workers without food, medicine, healthcare, education, electricity, clean water and the other basics they need to live.