Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

The Covid Inquiry

Get a nice break from bullshit and obfuscation this morning since its Angela McLean.

She thinks lockdown should have been two weeks earlier, that would have made a huge difference. But is aware that they hadnt got the data etc for that decision to actually have happened then, so has to settle for the idea that they could have done it by 16th March because there was enough data by then.

Van Tam yesterday said lockdown should have been 7-14 days earlier.

Whitty and Vallance tended to use the vaguer 'days earlier' in verbal evidence, but I'll need to double-check their written evidence to see if they gave a better sense of how many days there.
 
Angela McLean was brilliant, watch her evidence session if you want a great guide to sensible stuff in a pandemic, and the failings that led to the second wave.

If everyone spoke as consisely has her this module wouldnt have got into pacing difficulties. All the same, they still ended up having the rush through the final parts of her evidence, due to ongoing timing pressures. And no legal representatives for bereaved families and other groups got to ask her any questions.

Also they fucking well didnt even ask her why she referred to Sunak as Dr Death the Chancellor! This has been one of the most obvious and blatant omissions so far when it comes to the more sensational aspects of the inquiry and not building on previous inquiry revelations.
 
Badenoch is on and its the somewhat expected mix of some sensible stuff but combined with tory ideology and policy. Some important themes given her equalities role int he pandemic that I dont think I'll do sufficient justice to the subject via brief quotes, and I've also run out of steam and cant be dealing with the politics right now.

Next weeks timetable has been published!

27thtimetable.png
 
Fucking NIck Triggle again. Typical mix of accurate reporting and distortion, with the usual fallacy that he has reeked of since the start of this pandemic.


I dont want to spend part of my Sunday going through this and picking it apart, pointing out which bits are a fair reflection of the inquiry so far and which bits are dodgy. I will do it another day, although if anybody else wants to help me out by tackling parts of it in the meantime I would be grateful.
 
I've been watching this this morning. It's pretty damning. He was basically begging to be allowed into those COBRA meetings and was constantly denied. Yes, London is different to the rest of the UK because it's the main trasnsport and financial hub, its not arrogance, it's fact.
 
I've been watching this this morning. It's pretty damning. He was basically begging to be allowed into those COBRA meetings and was constantly denied. Yes, London is different to the rest of the UK because it's the main trasnsport and financial hub, its not arrogance, it's fact.
We heard evidence from an earlier witness in this module that they were the blocker, with the crap excuse that they didnt believe different mayors should be treated differently.

So in part you can blame this guy for Khan not being allowed into COBR on earlier occasions:

 
Fucking NIck Triggle again. Typical mix of accurate reporting and distortion, with the usual fallacy that he has reeked of since the start of this pandemic.


I dont want to spend part of my Sunday going through this and picking it apart, pointing out which bits are a fair reflection of the inquiry so far and which bits are dodgy. I will do it another day, although if anybody else wants to help me out by tackling parts of it in the meantime I would be grateful.
I dont think I've got the mental health reserves necessary to go through this article and pick on all the points in detail.

I'll just point out that the broad expert, scientific and government failings were all part of the first wave, blame is shared for that one. But when it came to the second wave, the inquiry evidence so far has confirmed that it was the governments fault that the balance was all wrong when it came to addressing the second wave. The experts and all sorts of other covid response groups within government knew what needed to be done the second time, it wasnt just SAGE.

But Johnson etc fucked it up by refusing to act at the right time with the right strength. And the likes of the Treasury did their own calculations about other effects, which fed into the 'balancing act', but they kept all their workings out secret. Triggle himself was responsible for writing some shit in September 2020 when these stupid delays and dangerous denials of the inevitable consequence were in full flow.

And his stuff is still riddled with the fallacy that you can save the economy and reduce the side-effects of measures by trying to avoid those measures by talking shit and delaying during crucial periods. Getting the balance right and reducing the harms mentioned in his article requires doing the right thing at the right time, having the right discussions about what our priorities are, etc.

And if you want to be sincere when it comes to issues like the mental health damage done to our young, you need to keep enough of a grip on the virus that you have room to impose measures for shorter periods of time, have wiggle room on schools by being tougher in other areas, etc. So the likes of Triggle and others in the media, Johnson, the Treasury etc were part of the problem whichever angle you come at it from, not just from the direct covid deaths angle.

Do not trust these people when they paint the balancing act in the way Triggle does in that article. Theres been nothing in the inquiry evidence that supports their stance. Nor has the inquiry discovered some magic alternative plan that could have worked in practice. It has heard from a few people that would have preferred an approach that just shielded the vulnerable and let others get on with life, which is understandable, except that nobody has been able to demonstrate a way to actually achieve that. And one or two witnesses last week pointed out that even identifying all of the vulnerable in the first place is a challenge, using Johnson as an example of someone who wouldnt have been classed as vulnerable but ended up seriously ill when they caught covid.

The only other way mentioned to avoid later lockdowns would be to have had a test & trace system that actually worked well enough to detect and isolate the required proportion of cases. But its also pointed out that even if you have that system, it only works up to a certain scale, it only works if you keep the number of infections within a certain range that doesnt challenge test & trace capacity. Countries that had those systems and success on that front needed to listen to the data from such systems, and impose timely restrictions in certain areas for certain periods of time when those systems indicated an outbreak that was growing too large. If the political will to make such decisions in a timely fashion doesnt exist, then even a decent test & trace system is no guarantee of permanent success on its own.
 
Last edited:
Theres one of two things from the Khan questioning that I will quote later once I have the transcript.

Burnham is up now. I was highly critical of his public statements and apparent priorities when the second wave was growing. But maybe he will manage to say some sensible stuff today that balances my view of him. Or maybe he will make me rant, lets see.
 
All sensible from Burnham so far. Complaints about being left out of COBR, top down decision making, ended up calling for lockdown on the telly some hours before it was announced. Later in May didnt hear about easing of 1st lockdown in advance. Didnt want it lifted there/stay at home message changed at that time because Manchester etc lagged behind London and the South in terms of first wave peak timing, and still had a high case rate. Points out how many people never stopped working in Manchester in the first place due to number of warehouse etc jobs, how many people in the region couldnt get sick pay etc.

Difficulties getting local positive test data in June 2020. Asked for patient-identifiable data but it was refused for weeks and weeks, had to enter a media battle to try to get hold of the data. Wanted to do local contact tracing rather than shit central call centre approach.
 
Khan did make one very vaild point, well, he made many, but he questioned why if they didn't the Mayors involved physically, why they couldn't just Zoom in. Just a fucking debacle. He came across very well tbf.
 
Burnham continued to be sensible. Because when it came to the period where I was critical of him, they only talked about the version of it that was all based on not being consulted and on a lack of funding to support people who would be affected by the higher tier local measures. And I always agreed with that side of it, it was only when he and his nighttime economies minister made comments about not shutting pubs etc that went beyond that and were not couched in terms of financial support that I got upset with them at the time, and no examples of that came up today.

Indeed Burnham got even angrier today about the tiers system and what got done to the North at that stage of the pandemic because he has now seen evidence from others such as Hancock and specific government covid operational meetings that at the very moment they were about to put Manchester into Tier 3, (a) they said Burnham had behaved appallingly, (b) they seemed to be suggesting putting Manchester into stronger measures with less support to make an example of the and of Burnham, and (c) they already knew or suspected by then that tier 3 wouldnt be enough to control things, not enough to bring R below 1.

I dont want to have to go and dig back to find examples of what I moaned about in regards Burnham back then, but certainly if I didnt take the financial support angles into consideration and just suspected them of trying to avoid closing the pubs etc, I would have made the same sorts of comments about him as mentioned in (a) if I had been them, but that wouldnt then have led me to (b) if I were in government, and (c) makes the whole period and tier system absurd and a deadly disgrace anyway. There might be sensible ways to do localised measures but not if they are just used in a crude and doomed attempt to doing the right things at the right time on a national basis (eg instead of a much needed circuit-breaker nationally).

I suspect that if we could have a Manchester-specific inquiry that got into more detail, we would find some instances of dodgy priorities and some slipperiness, but it would be hard to apportion much blame without still ending up judging that the wider shit UK government response and priorities were ultimately at faulty and creating the circumstances of this period in the first place.

He pointed out that he instigated the review into the swine flu pandemic, and that one of the conclusions of that review was that the country should have more of a devolved approach that let local authorities etc play their part in a pandemic properly. And of course a lot of todays evidence showed just how far away from that we were with the Johnson governments approach to this pandemic.

He went on about the London-centric nature of things and how he thinks the Johnson government would haver have done to a London borough what was done to Bolton.

A falling out between him and the Scottish government over travel restrictions in 2021 also came up, again in part because there was no communication, no advanced notice, no coordination.
 
Sounds like Khan was sensible about facemasks for the public too and kept pressing the issue despite himself receiving the shit UK orthodox expert advice of the time that they caused more harm than good. Part of the reson he got to sensible about it is that he could see what was happening in some other cities around the world that had already moved beyond the initial crap attitude towards masks.

There was a relevant letter shown on the today but they scrolled through it a bit too quickly for me to capture it in full so I will wait till it is published and then link to it.
 
The Liverpool CIty Region mayor is up now, with the same sort of story really.

The fact the government wanted to reduce furlough support to 67% of wages instead of 80% for regions put under the toughest of measures is important detail for these northern mayors. I probably didnt shout about that shit from the government enough at the time because I was probably more focussed on the generally dreadful and slow response to the second wave.

Even if they had done the local measures properly back then, and funded people properly, we'd likely still have ended up with a national disaster and more national lockdowns because all the areas that didnt initially have the highest levels of infection and imposed tiers would eventually have caught up.
 
Sounds like Khan was sensible about facemasks for the public too and kept pressing the issue despite himself receiving the shit UK orthodox expert advice of the time that they caused more harm than good. Part of the reson he got to sensible about it is that he could see what was happening in some other cities around the world that had already moved beyond the initial crap attitude towards masks.

There was a relevant letter shown on the today but they scrolled through it a bit too quickly for me to capture it in full so I will wait till it is published and then link to it.

If I recall correctly, WHO was also saying they did more harm than good, not just the UK experts. I had a bit of an argument with a friend in New Zealand at the time who was saying their scientists were saying you should absolutely wear them. And well hey, they ended up with relatively few deaths (I appreciate there were other factors in their 'success' - a competent leader for one, but the mask issue was bizarre on the part of WHO)
 
If I recall correctly, WHO was also saying they did more harm than good, not just the UK experts. I had a bit of an argument with a friend in New Zealand at the time who was saying their scientists were saying you should absolutely wear them. And well hey, they ended up with relatively few deaths (I appreciate there were other factors in their 'success' - a competent leader for one, but the mask issue was bizarre on the part of WHO)
Yes the WHO were initially shit on that subject and then gradually changed their advice in a couple of stages. UK advice and rules also changed in stages, taking some months longer to demand their use in a number of scenarios after the WHO had changed their advice.

There were a number of crap excuses for the crap advice. Including claims that the public would use them wrongly, or behave inappropriately due to a false sense of security. And a failure to recognise the role of asymptomatic and presymptomatic cases in transmission. And too much reliance on 'there isnt enough evidence they can work' instead of using basic common sense.

Reasons why those crap excuses were allowed to dominate the picture during crucial months havent been fully explored. The suspicion is that a fear about limited mask supplies being directed away from frontline healthcare etc workers was a factor. That was also seen when advice finally changed, via the initial use of the term face coverings instead of masks. But probably cultural bias against masks too. And the fact that the WHO exists within a neoliberal system, one where encouraging people to behave somewhat normally had undue influence for economic reasons. I well remember an early period where people thought the WHO might say something sensible about borders and travel, but instead put out a press release about their work with the World Tourism Board (or something with a similar name, I forget exactly), which I took as another sign of this shit.
 
Gove apologised to the bereaved for mistakes made, but then went on to rely on all the usual excuses, and to talk about how great he thinks Hancock and the DHSC permanent secretary are.

The crap excuses he relied on for early failings include stuff that the inquiry has already punched holes in previously. Such as not understanding there could be asymptomatic transmission, and the plan being a flu plan that just didnt match this particular virus. And then he decided to go on about the possibility that it was a man-made virus, a theme the inquiry doesnt have the scope to look at in any way. There were a few other excuses offered too but Im not going to drive myself mad by listing them all.

I am aware that from a certain point Gove was one of those within government whose instincts shifted to actually responding strongly, but we havent reached that point in the chronology yet. The evidence so far has been for the weeks before the week beginning March 9th. With that 9th March week being when Goves concerns shifted from the danger of overreaction to the danger of under reaction = pretty typical timing for anyone with half a clue. Maybe he will become slightly less tedious to listen to once we get into that period.
 
Last edited:
Gove getting a clue and starting to ask some of the right questions on March 10th 2020 in a message to Hancock and Cummings:

GoveMarch10th1.png
GoveMarch10th2.png
 
How nice of Gove to issue an apology years later just as the truth is coming out Michael Gove delivers apology to Covid victims and their families for ‘mistakes made by government’ – UK politics live
I want to take this opportunity, if I may, to apologise to the victims who endured so much pain, the families who’ve endured so much loss, as a result of the mistakes that were made by government in response to the pandemic.
And as a minister, responsible for the Cabinet Office, and who was also close to many of the decisions that were made, I must take my share of responsibility for that.
Politicians are human beings, we’re fallible, we make mistakes and we make errors. And I’m sure that the inquiry will have an opportunity to look in detail at many of the errors I and others made.
 
The inquiry keeps asking stupid questions about why the government didnt give the March 16th measures longer to work before imposing the March 23rd lockdown.

Exponential growth and where we already were on the curve, and the lag between taking action and seeing what result it has is always the answer that witnesses who understand reality offer. The lead counsel claims the inquiry understands exponential growth but the repeated questioning on this topic and some of the language used suggests they dont really appreciate the scale of the growth once the numbers are already that high and the data lag that bad.

To be fair they probably do these questions repeatedly so that people who think lockdown was unnecessary dont think the inquiry failed to probe this possibility properly. But the way they do it doesnt give me too much confidence about whether they really understand all the fundamentals and will be able to fully punch through some of the fallacies.
 
The above led to a prolonged period of this session where Gove was talking far more sense than Hugo Keith. I'll even have to quote Gove later, he sounded like me pissing on some key fallacies.
 
When they reached questions on devolved stuff, Gove waffled politically and fell out with the lead counsel. Chair stepped in several times to dampen the bunfight.

They are now on to the tier system period and the November lockdown, where Gove was always pushing for more action to be taken and didnt have any faith that the tier system would work.
 
Shit pacing again. Goves waffle and time wasted earlier has left the lawyers for other groups, many of which cover other parts of the UK, having to rush through their questions, which is especially bad given Goves role in dealing with the devolved administrations during the pandemic.
 
Jenny Harries now.

An email from March 10th 2020 where she uses a similar crap line to Whitty about the dangers of going to early. Except she also has a go at Italy and expresses a sense of UK preparedness which turned out to be far wide of the mark.

This sort of shit is a chunk of the reason I always moan about the entire orthodox approach to pandemics, including from this level of medical/scientific expertise.

HarriesMarch10th.png
 
Back
Top Bottom