Emma Herself
let me be your office boy
See, now you've caught up. Bloody middle class liberal hairdressing posh boy libcommer punk lifestyle book reading scumicepick said:
the all new 2005 who's taking a trip to holloway thread
- Thread starter Pickman's model
- Start date
montevideo
New Member
Zoë Herself said:See, now you've caught up. Bloody middle class liberal hairdressing posh boy libcommer punk lifestyle book reading scum
book reading!!!? How did that get slipped in? You anti-socials are a weird bunch.
Emma Herself
let me be your office boy
Cos, like, books are made by The Man. They only tell you what they what you to hear, and they're authoritarian cos they discriminate against those who can't read, you know, the working class.
Don't tell me you read books too, Monte? Otherwise you'll no longer be my all-time favourite anarchist
Don't tell me you read books too, Monte? Otherwise you'll no longer be my all-time favourite anarchist
Emma Herself
let me be your office boy
You're such a fucking liberal. Go join the Labour party. 0 @narky points for you.
montevideo
New Member
Zoë Herself said:Cos, like, books are made by The Man. They only tell you what they what you to hear, and they're authoritarian cos they discriminate against those who can't read, you know, the working class.
Don't tell me you read books too, Monte? Otherwise you'll no longer be my all-time favourite anarchist
i think my lifestyle permits me the odd paperback. Is reading anti-social zoe?
Organisational responsibility and discipline should not be controversial. They are the travelling companions of the practice of social anarchism.
I read the above statement recently and I firmly believe it to be true.
How do you think it helps to build cross community support to alienate older people from the working class by disrupting their social time together?
Could someone who understands Anarchism in the UK explain to me if the term “Anarchism” encompasses all radicalised liberalism and is that why this thread has gone the way it has, many radical liberals consider themselves to be anarchist; while the social anarchist on here don’t consider them such?
I read the above statement recently and I firmly believe it to be true.
How do you think it helps to build cross community support to alienate older people from the working class by disrupting their social time together?
Could someone who understands Anarchism in the UK explain to me if the term “Anarchism” encompasses all radicalised liberalism and is that why this thread has gone the way it has, many radical liberals consider themselves to be anarchist; while the social anarchist on here don’t consider them such?
Epicurus said:
I wouldn't be seen dead with a radical liberal.
montevideo
New Member
Chuck Wilson said:
what about your gardener?
montevideo
New Member
defendants update: one of those arrested has just been back to angel nick where he is again bailed to return in january. No charge although pre-bail conditions are a) not allowed in the borough of islington, b) not allowed to associate with the other defendants (these it seems are the standard conditions for people arrested in football fights). This looks likely for all 7 defendants.
Reading between the lines obviously not got enough to charge with just the police statements (a good thing) & are waiting on the cctv footage to see if there's anything incriminating before charging them with anything.
Reading between the lines obviously not got enough to charge with just the police statements (a good thing) & are waiting on the cctv footage to see if there's anything incriminating before charging them with anything.
montevideo said:
He isn't a radical liberal and feels the same way.
montevideo
New Member
ps from what i know all 7 gave a no comment interviews. Again a good thing.
Top Dog
Well-Known Member
Q for monty: you've been behind this call for an anarchist assembly to bring people together with the aim of discusing commonalities that can lead to action... how do you reconcile this + approach with the - bickering and personal attacks that you seem to spend most of your time engaged in on urban with @'s and others? Does it help enable the sort of conducive atmosphere thats an absolute pre-requisite for folk to to meet irl?
Q for attica: if half a dozen crusties walked into a Crook working men's club with their own music, set it off... leading to the bar being shut down... and then fucked off before the filth arrived to said working men's club, leaving the occupants to cop the flak from the bill, would you still say this is acceptable*?
*coz i note that you've concentrated on the flashpoint with the bill, but left any discussion of the rights or wrongs of what led up to it
Q for attica: if half a dozen crusties walked into a Crook working men's club with their own music, set it off... leading to the bar being shut down... and then fucked off before the filth arrived to said working men's club, leaving the occupants to cop the flak from the bill, would you still say this is acceptable*?
*coz i note that you've concentrated on the flashpoint with the bill, but left any discussion of the rights or wrongs of what led up to it
montevideo
New Member
i call a spade a spade lad, now go & weed those marrows, the revolutionary party won't feed itself.Chuck Wilson said:
montevideo said:i call a spade a spade lad, now go & weed those marrows, the revolutionary party won't feed itself.
Marrows have just about finished up here Monty and I have just cropped the pumpkins as one of them got nicked. I had a word with the Chairman, sorry 'facilitator', of the allotment association about a non hierarchical voluntary pumpkin defence militia but he said that it sounded to much like platform anarchism to him and went back to his seed catalogue, This Mrs Snowden btw , is she one of your benefactors?
montevideo
New Member
Top Dog said:
one thing i have learnt topdog is real life is real life & the internet is the internet. Opposite & almost always contradictory. If people turn up contribute, whether it be a discussion day, an activity, an event, solidarity action, a picket then we have something to work on & i'll be as conducive as anyone else.
If on the other hand we have this petty gossiping from the sidelines, resentful self-exclusion, almost pathalogical political categorisation, coupled with an anti-social bulshittery then they will receive just as much in return.
Hi there, me = regular lurker, occasional poster (mostly in tech forums),
Reading threads like this (and many, many others) make me believe further that anarchism is not "the answer" any more (not that I was ever really fully sure about that anyway, but for a time I believed in it). If its supposed to be about mutual co-operation in society, consensus, and peaceful conflict resolution, then its advocates are no shining example to look up to, at least in my eyes. People endlessly find new micro-conflicts to wind themselves up in, be it Dissent!, the Bookfair, internecine rivalry, etc - and build them up into these massive rows, especially on the internet. What does anarchism offer me, seriously all I can see from it is people bitching at each other and at other micro left groups within the same 1% of the left spectrum (the narcissism of minor difference and all that...).
If those advocating an organisation of society by the people within it cant even organise an introductory assembly of activists with extremely similar aims, what model is that for a society with a far, far wider range of opinions and backgrounds than the activist ghetto?
And yes, I am aware of the irony of this posting negative remarks on an internet forum, but I'm not an 'activist' pushing for anarchism, and I'll try not to do it again, I dont want to get involved in internet spats, they're bad for your brain.
Reading threads like this (and many, many others) make me believe further that anarchism is not "the answer" any more (not that I was ever really fully sure about that anyway, but for a time I believed in it). If its supposed to be about mutual co-operation in society, consensus, and peaceful conflict resolution, then its advocates are no shining example to look up to, at least in my eyes. People endlessly find new micro-conflicts to wind themselves up in, be it Dissent!, the Bookfair, internecine rivalry, etc - and build them up into these massive rows, especially on the internet. What does anarchism offer me, seriously all I can see from it is people bitching at each other and at other micro left groups within the same 1% of the left spectrum (the narcissism of minor difference and all that...).
If those advocating an organisation of society by the people within it cant even organise an introductory assembly of activists with extremely similar aims, what model is that for a society with a far, far wider range of opinions and backgrounds than the activist ghetto?
And yes, I am aware of the irony of this posting negative remarks on an internet forum, but I'm not an 'activist' pushing for anarchism, and I'll try not to do it again, I dont want to get involved in internet spats, they're bad for your brain.
Top Dog
Well-Known Member
its funny that you start from the position of blaming the people that wont turn up to these things... "self excluding" etc. etc. ie. its the fault of the non-attenders that they wont engage in the process. Rather than begining with the process and considering what can the initiative do to encourage & enable the maximum no. of people to attend? What issues, problems, concerns might disbar them? etc.montevideo said:
Look back over the thread and you'll see several people who've expressed exasperation at the bickering thats going on and have suggested it's informing their impression of @ists or at least the london ones. How many more lurkers in P&P think the same but dont dare post for fear of being flamed??? Will we ever know?
Its a similar baseline to the perennial hand-wringing that goes on in meetings about why there arent more women involved in our scene... led of course by confident, assertive, (and/or else predatory) agenda-mad men, talking about the question in the abstract... in a pub.
Yeah... i cant think why there arent more women involved in our scene
Agreed.Epicurus said:
The most common criticism I run into of anarchism (well, aside from the clowns) is on its supposed naive reliance on human good nature - and reluctance among many to tackle issues of anti-social behaviour, putting them down to capitalism and nothing more (not saying many of them are not, but I fear the fuckwit shall be with us for all days). Being unable to handle anti-socials right now kinda proves this to be at least partially true.
The problem IMO isn't so much "radical liberalism" as it is a general anti-social fuck-you attitude that takes anarchy as do what you want and damn the consequences.
- Jonathan
I was merely pointing out (with a degree of humour) that its a little silly using words like "evolvement" when there are already perfectly servicable words in common usage. I happen to think stuff like this is a big problem within the anarchist movement in the UK. It's not big, it's not clever and it alienates people.Taxamo Welf said:sorry, but you weren't joking. i'm sure you do have a sense of humour, but you weren't using it then. The colonels point stands IMVHO
Emma Herself
let me be your office boy
Yes, as is:montevideo said:
*brushing your teeth
*buying food
*paying rent
*taking part in competitive sport
Monte I'm dissapointed with you, I thought you'd be more revolutionary than to spend time reading books, but as you've pointed out, aside from the book reading (and possibly some of the points above), you do live a very acceptable anarchist lifestyle so I'll let you off and you can still be my no.1 anarchist.
Everything's still ok.
Just found the quote I used above it is from Black Flag issue 225 where there is a very informative piece about “Looking back and forward” looking at the anarchist movement in the UK from the 1960’s to today. I’d like to meet the person who wrote it for a pint I found it very informative; I have no idea how correct it is but it rings very true with me.
BTW why can’t I access : www.flag.blackened.net isn’t that the web address?
I found it very informative; I have no idea how correct it is but it rings very true with me.BTW why can’t I access : www.flag.blackened.net isn’t that the web address?
Epicurus said:
http://flag.blackened.net/blackflag/ -- try that one.
Not been updated since 2001, mind. Probably best to write to the PO Box. They're friendly enough people.
I can see at least 1 Flagger on this thread, but I'll let him make himself known......
The Black Hand
Unclean
FFS - too shy/scared to post (anonymously) cos they might be flamed... didums again 
(and I appreciate people have to train themselves not to be shy) - as Ian Bone said, 'what you see is what you get', at least its honest - boy do I hate the 'wespectable' who can't post on their own accord and merely parrot the 'fed'/'party'/'association' line....
But you are right topdog, this 'male behaviour' does alienate women and is a political problem in its own right...
ANyway, we have still nothing to fear but fear itself, and as individuals and as groups, and a movement, we have to 'feel the fear and do it anyway'. It is fear that absolutely paralises individuals and groups, it is fear that stops those who could have done more on the saturday nite in Holloway road, the sleeping policeman/woman in everybodies heads who must be killed 
(we would do well to remember who put it there an why)... More l8r.
(and I appreciate people have to train themselves not to be shy) - as Ian Bone said, 'what you see is what you get', at least its honest - boy do I hate the 'wespectable' who can't post on their own accord and merely parrot the 'fed'/'party'/'association' line....But you are right topdog, this 'male behaviour' does alienate women and is a political problem in its own right...
ANyway, we have still nothing to fear but fear itself, and as individuals and as groups, and a movement, we have to 'feel the fear and do it anyway'. It is fear that absolutely paralises individuals and groups, it is fear that stops those who could have done more on the saturday nite in Holloway road, the sleeping policeman/woman in everybodies heads who must be killed
(we would do well to remember who put it there an why)... More l8r.Similar threads
