Terrorist attacks and beheadings in France

[Aladdin]

At the risk of sounding like one of the children in question...yeah, but why?

I can imagine, and indeed have experience of, classes discussing such subjects appropriately.

The inclusion of the content in both the case of pornography and these cartoons would be gratuitous. There's no need for it to enable a productive discussion.

Kids no doubt can, will and have found these cartoons and pornography for themselves. I'm not arguing for any sort of bans, just I'm not sure teachers should be showing this kind of content in schools when it's not necessary.

If the teacher had just mentioned the cartoons and the attack that would be acceptable do you think?

His Lesson was about freedom of speech which implies freedom of thought and by implication freedom of expression. If he felt curbed in presenting his lesson in any way then the lesson would be meaningless surely?

The person who beheaded this teacher had no understanding of or appreciation for freedom of any kind. Let alone freedom of thought or freedom of expression.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Struggling to see why anyone would muddy the waters here and not just be able to outright condemn the killer.

 

[danny la rouge]

Struggling to see why anyone would muddy the waters here and not just be able to outright condemn the killer.

Yup. Discussing whether it was OK to show the cartoon seems to come at this from entirely the wrong angle.

 

[Aladdin]

Struggling to see why anyone would muddy the waters here and not just be able to outright condemn the killer.

I thought that was a given...?

I posted because I found it very weird that the teacher's lesson was being discussed as a contributing factor in his murder.

Yup. Discussing whether it was OK to show the cartoon seems to come at this from entirely the wrong angle.

Agreed

 

[likesfish]

One of the parents put the parents photo on social media and is obviously ecstatic the infidel has been killed and his killer us now in paradise.
The sort of scum that can't conceive that others niether belive or care about your beliefs don't deserve to live in the 21st century.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

If the teacher had just mentioned the cartoons and the attack that would be acceptable do you think?

His Lesson was about freedom of speech which implies freedom of thought and by implication freedom of expression. If he felt curbed in presenting his lesson in any way then the lesson would be meaningless surely?

The person who beheaded this teacher had no understanding of or appreciation for freedom of any kind. Let alone freedom of thought or freedom of expression.

From mid-teens, it's entirely appropriate (IMO) for kids to be introduced to and discuss mild-moderately controversial/adult topics or works of art in school. In fact, what happens to society if anything deemed even slightly controversial can't be discussed in school?

 

[Johnny Vodka]

One of the parents put the parents photo on social media and is obviously ecstatic the infidel has been killed and his killer us now in paradise.
The sort of scum that can't conceive that others niether belive or care about your beliefs don't deserve to live in the 21st century.

I heard one of the parents in effect 'tipped off' the killer, but I assumed they would be fucking kicking themself now.

 

[Spymaster]

Struggling to see why anyone would muddy the waters here and not just be able to outright condemn the killer.

Don't be silly. There're no muddy waters here with regards to condemning the murder. The condemnation is so obviously universal (in this forum) as not to require specific mention.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

From mid-teens, it's entirely appropriate (IMO) for kids to be introduced to and discuss mild-moderately controversial/adult topics or works of art in school. In fact, what happens to society if anything deemed even slightly controversial can't be discussed in school?

Especially something like this, which is not explicit or 'obscene' in any way. It's a drawing of a man's face with some words next to it. tbh I find the idea that any child ought to be protected at school from even questioning the ideas of their religion to be a very dangerous one. And it is of course very counter to the French idea of secular education.

 

[chilango]

Don't be daft people. Of course the killer's act is unjustifiable. There's not really much to discuss about that really is there?

...but it's equally obvious that we don't live in a world where a teacher can show those cartoons (and many other things) in a classroom without consequences. However abhorrent this may be, it is the situation we are in.

We don't have freedom of speech of expression. Pretending we do us just wishful thinking at this point.

 

[Jay Park]

A teacher has been beheaded in Paris in what Macron is calling an "Islamic terrorism incident".

Early reports say that he was a history and geography teacher who was giving a talk about freedom of expression to pupils and showing some of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons that upset some muslims prior to the attack on their offices in 2015. There is some context in that there's a trial going on in France at the moment regarding the Charlie Hebdo attack.

Clearly nobody will condone the execution of teachers in the street and fortunately the scumbag with the knife was shot dead by police but is it on for teachers to be showing kids obviously seriously controversial cartoons anyway? Apparently this chap told the muslim children in his class that they should leave if they thought they would be offended. It's early days so the usual caveats around not jumping to conclusions too soon apply, but if it's as reported isn't this unwisely inflammatory; actually showing the cartoons in a school lesson and telling the muslim kids to do one if they don't like it?

Macron calls Paris beheading 'Islamist terrorist attack'

The teacher killed in a Paris suburb reportedly showed his pupils cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

www.bbc.co.uk

no he shouldn’t be showing images like those, we been here before in late 2015. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean You can be antagonising an already marginalised and angry demographic, educationally, in a (supposedly) enlightened culture

 

[Jay Park]

Especially something like this, which is not explicit or 'obscene' in any way. It's a drawing of a man's face with some words next to it. tbh I find the idea that any child ought to be protected at school from even questioning the ideas of their religion to be a very dangerous one. And it is of course very counter to the French idea of secular education.

right but, in Islam, there should be no representation of Mohammed. So what are you playing at? Discuss, yes. Slideshows of Charlie Hebdo’s sleasy antagonistic shit cartoons. No.

 

[Jay Park]

Don't be daft people. Of course the killer's act is unjustifiable. There's not really much to discuss about that really is there?

...but it's equally obvious that we don't live in a world where a teacher can show those cartoons (and many other things) in a classroom without consequences. However abhorrent this may be, it is the situation we are in.

We don't have freedom of speech of expression. Pretending we do us just wishful thinking at this point.

wishful thinking - or just turn it in with your appalling anti-semetic indoctrination

 

[likesfish]

I heard one of the parents in effect 'tipped off' the killer, but I assumed they would be fucking kicking themself now.

Nah they knew what they were doing

 

[chilango]

wishful thinking - or just turn it in with your appalling anti-semetic indoctrination

huh?

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

From mid-teens, it's entirely appropriate (IMO) for kids to be introduced to and discuss mild-moderately controversial/adult topics or works of art in school. In fact, what happens to society if anything deemed even slightly controversial can't be discussed in school?

wasn't there some recent guidelines issued by the government along those lines recently?

 

[Jay Park]

huh?

We don't have freedom of speech of expression. Pretending we do us just wishful thinking at this point.

Bolllocks

 

[Jay Park]

wasn't there some recent guidelines issued by the government along those lines recently?

you can have a discussion about the representation of Mohammed without the images.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

right but, in Islam, there should be no representation of Mohammed. So what are you playing at? Discuss, yes. Slideshows of Charlie Hebdo’s sleasy antagonistic shit cartoons. No.

In whose Islam? But also so what? In some people's Islam, girls shouldn't be educated. Which bits of whose religion should be adhered to by everyone like this?

 

[killer b]

Bolllocks

I'm mystified how that's antisemitic.

 

[Jay Park]

What, are kids only able to decipher an opinion based on racist picture books?

 

[chilango]

I'm mystified how that's antisemitic.

Me too.

 

[Jay Park]

In whose Islam? But also so what? In some people's Islam, girls shouldn't be educated. Which bits of whose religion should be adhered to by everyone like this?

don’t move the goalposts, stay on point

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What, are kids only able to decipher an opinion based on racist picture books?

You don't actually know much about Charlie Hebdo, do you?

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

you can have a discussion about the representation of Mohammed without the images.

I wasn't alluding to this particular story but a recent announcement by the british government on unsuitable teaching materials.

 

[Jay Park]

I'm mystified how that's antisemitic.

semetic is a language group, Arabic included, no?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

semetic is a language group, Arabic included, no?

Ah, you were being a twat.

 

[chilango]

I'm confused.

 

[Jay Park]

You don't actually know much about Charlie Hebdo, do you?

shifting them goalposts again, get on the football thread with Badgers et al.

 

[Jay Park]

Ah, you were being a twat.

man comes at you with that, get a grip