Tell me about BrixtonGreen - a "community led development" on Somerleyton Road

[snowy_again]

As an aside, holding a consultation event on an election night (that had sufficient advance warning) seems a little peculiar.

 

[editor]

That doesn't quite correlate with my take on what I've read above. In my opinion you made a fair(ish) point, they made a respectable effort to step up to the mark and you put up a brick wall. I appreciate that you don't simply don't agree so, respectfully, I see no value in arguing that point further.

Is the "brick wall" I've supposedly put up boil down to my inability to immediately attend a short notice meeting?

In truth, I've given a lot of very useful and practical advice to BrixtonGreen on this thread, none of which has been acknowledged or acted upon. I feel I've been brushed off.

Along with several other posters we've been finding it frustratingly difficult to grasp exactly what it is they're offering, and when I asked brad questions here I was directed to continue the discussion in a format that was neither open or transparent.

He's posted rather disturbing suggestions about how they want to build retail activity onto the green space outside the Barrier Block - without troubling themselves to make any contact with residents of that block, or indeed, even slap up a single poster.

So, yes, I am getting a bit annoyed. I like that green space thanks very much, and I don't think there's any local clamour to have it taken away or for more shop units when there's so many already lying empty nearby.

The truth is that it's proving very difficult to actually work out exactly what it is they intend to do - and their website is a vague and frustrating back-slapping affair woefully short of information (e.g. clicking on the 'Click here to see the proposal so far' page brings up a 'page not found error.')

There. That's another bit of useful info I've given them.

 

[Rushy]

Like I said, your opinion of the value of your own contribution on this matter does not correlate with my own. I accept that. I'm not trying to win the argument with you.

I agree with you that BGs plans are not concrete. Where we differ is that I don't think they claim that they are anything but fluid at this stage. They clearly want to increase consultation in order to firm up those plans. I think it is a positive thing to see local people taking initiatives like this. I certainly would struggle to contribute the time required to get something of this magnitude off the ground.

I have signed up for my share so that if this does move forward I can hopefully be a part of it. I may be wrong but at this stage I certainly feel more included in BGs process than I do in any co-op's private negotiations with HAs and the council for the use of that publicly owned site.

 

[editor]

I agree with you that BGs plans are not concrete. Where we differ is that I don't think they claim that they are anything but fluid at this stage. They clearly want to increase consultation in order to firm up those plans.

Yet when they start getting opinions from local people directly affected by their plans here, they decline to get involved, insisting that the discussion should be hidden in private emails.

 

[Gramsci]

Gramsci, could you be a little more open about your aspirations for the land and exactly what you are lobbying for behind the scenes on behalf of your co-op?

Your criticisms of BG are all very well but it would be useful to allow readers to interpret them in the context of your and CMHC's vested interests.

I went to Brixton Masterplan meetings run by Future Brixton and talked to an HA. Not done behind the scenes. The discussions with HA were tentative and came to nothing in the end. If there had been further involvement of an HA in the site a feasibility study would have been done which would have included wider consultation with surrounding residents. Its old history as far as Im concerned.

My initial meeting with BG I thought they were another group who wanted to have some involvement on the site. Not a problem. Not a threat .I did think that various groups would be involved in the site. Such as Oval House theatre who had expressed an interest. And who I felt would be an asset to the area.

In the end its the Councils decision what happens on its land. With the Masterplan laying down the framework.

As I represent a long standing community I do spend some of my time representing them to try and secure peoples future. Its not an easy task. If it seen as representing a vested interest group so be it. I do not feel that powerful. If my group is strongly represented then thats down to the hard work. Nor do I have endless time and energy.

There is an overall problem in Brixton with residents groups and business groups being represented to the Council over a range of issues that affect Brixton as a whole. The Council run Brixton Stakeholders Meetings are now defunct since December. The Popes road car park issue did unite the various groups in Brixton to support the traders car park (including my group). There is talk of setting up a new Forum. But have to see if that comes to anything.

There is also a problem of peoples time and energy. Most people, including me, havent got endless time. U have to limit it to essentials. Though giving support to other groups like the market traders for there car park I did as I felt that was important for Brixton to support them on that issue.

 

[free spirit]

, the best way to get a project off the ground is to get a tight and energetic group of people together to bash out a firm plan between them before presenting it to the community for comment and then, based on that feedback, either progressing, ammending or going back to the drawing board.

that method is a recipe for disaster in community development terms, it's absolutely not the way it should be done, particularly not by an organisation that wishes to portray itself as being community led.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I think it's analagous with well-meaning (but not always) groups of people who go to LEDCs and say,
"Hey, poor people that we feel sorry for, we have a plan!"
They smile patronisingly when the locals say
"Eh? That's not what we want, actually, and moreover, you've got the wrong end of the stick about what our community is like. In fact you're in the wrong fucking forest. Go away please, we can work out what we want and need ourselves. If you really insist that you assist us, you could help us with 'this'."
Whatever 'this' is, the well-meaning (but not always) group think we are too poor and stupid to understand what we need and pat us on the head and make soothing noises, telling us they will listen carefully to us.
The well-meaning (but not always) group then impose something unsuitable that local people don't actually need or want and quite often makes things worse.

 

[oryx]

From a non-local but professional perspective, they should definitely be offering to attend local residents' association meetings and speak openly about their plans, and listen to (and take on) the feedback and concerns.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

No, apparently we have to go to them, at a time convenient to them.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Because, of course, they know what's best for us, so they call the shots. They're professionals.

 

[toblerone3]

From a non-local but professional perspective, they should definitely be offering to attend local residents' association meetings and speak openly about their plans, and listen to (and take on) the feedback and concerns.

But Editor as a community leader, you should also offer to go on a walking tour with them. Your insistence that they conduct their initial consultation on your website is arrogant.

 

[oryx]

It should be very simple for them to come and talk about their plans at a resident association meeting. If they can't, or won't, it would make me wonder why.

 

[colacubes]

But Editor as a community leader, you should also offer to go on a walking tour with them. Your insistence that they conduct their initial consultation on your website is arrogant.

1. I think Ed would LOL his pants off at the idea of being a community leader.

2. He doesn't need to go on a walking tour with them - the proposed development is on a massive piece of grass outside his block. I could give you a walking tour of it

3. You're being a bit disingenuous - he hasn't said that. What he's said is he's surprised they've chosen to not really engage on Urban. They want the debate on their terms.

I see why people are conflicted about this. But I have to say I don't understand what it's all about and I work in the wanky sort of 3rd sector world where I see these sort of things regularly. And I know Ed and Mrs M very well and if they're concerned about it and unclear of the point of it, as people who live RIGHT ON TOP OF THIS SITE, I think it's reasonable to wait for Brixton Green to really show us what they are proposing and in the meantime be cynical about it. In the 6 years I've lived in the same area I've seen loads of well-meaning but naive schemes come and go. I'd be happy for it to be a good and positive thing but they need to prove it.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

the proposed development is on a massive piece of grass outside his block.

Is it though? They also seem to be talking about the land alongside the railway line that runs along the side of Somerleyton (I think this is the bit they think has been empty for 30 years, which just is not the case at all). In fact I'm not totally sure what their plan for us is, as they don't seem to know or understand the area at all.

 

[colacubes]

Is it though? They also seem to be talking about the land alongside the railway line that runs along the side of Somerleyton (I think this is the bit they think has been empty for 30 years, which just is not the case at all). In fact I'm not totally sure what their plan for us is, as they don't seem to know or understand the area at all.

And that is entirely the problem cos I've heard about 20 different versions of what/where/how etc. Some of which is factually very wrong as far as I know

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Exactamundo, nipsla.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

In fact my Very Tall Lodger who has lived in Brixton for considerably less than a year has a far better handle on the area than BG seem to have.

 

[Rushy]

that method is a recipe for disaster in community development terms, it's absolutely not the way it should be done, particularly not by an organisation that wishes to portray itself as being community led.

Just for the record, you have slightly misquoted me there. What I wrote was:

You have previously argued that when starting with a blank sheet of paper, rather engaging in too much up front public consultation, the best way to get a project off the ground is to get a tight and energetic group of people together to bash out a firm plan between them before presenting it to the community for comment and then, based on that feedback, either progressing, ammending or going back to the drawing board.

 

[Rushy]

It should be very simple for them to come and talk about their plans at a resident association meeting. If they can't, or won't, it would make me wonder why.

Have they said to anyone at all that they can't or won't?

 

[oryx]

Have they said to anyone at all that they can't or won't?

It sounded like it from what editor was saying, but I will let him answer that, if he wants to.

Have they said to anyone that they can or will?

 

[editor]

But Editor as a community leader, you should also offer to go on a walking tour with them. Your insistence that they conduct their initial consultation on your website is arrogant.

1. I'm not a "community leader." That's really a quite ridiculous suggestion.
2. I don't need or want to go on a "walking tour" of the area that I live in.
3. Their website should explain their plans - it doesn't. In fact, it's broken.
4. I'm not 'insisting' that they conduct their initial consultation here, but I fail to see why a "community led" business can't discuss their plans openly rather than insisting that all discussion is taken to private email.
5. I've told them repeatedly that I'm on the residents association yet they have never shown any interest in getting involved.

 

[editor]

Is it though? They also seem to be talking about the land alongside the railway line that runs along the side of Somerleyton (I think this is the bit they think has been empty for 30 years, which just is not the case at all). In fact I'm not totally sure what their plan for us is, as they don't seem to know or understand the area at all.

Earlier in this thread, Brad seemed to be inferring that the grass area outside the Barrier Block would be better used for retail activity under their scheme but he refused to elaborate on that further. Which is, frankly, a bit weird. But there again, perhaps he didn't mean that, but unless he takes the trouble to explain his posts, locals are going to remain in the dark and rather suspicious.

 

[miss minnie]

Do BG post the minutes of their meetings on their website? It would seem like a really good, transparent and open thing to do. It might encourage more people to attend.

 

[toblerone3]

Do BG post the minutes of their meetings on their website? It would seem like a really good, transparent and open thing to do. It might encourage more people to attend.

Alternatively why not ask for a volunteer perhaps from this thread who can go and meet with Brad and ask all the right questions and record everything that is said and report back to this thread. Then there will be some really good material to discuss here more interesting material than isn't their website rubbish and how inadequate their consultation is et al. Brad will have done his walking tour chat and people here can argue the toss and everyone will be happy.

 

[toblerone3]

Do BG post the minutes of their meetings on their website? It would seem like a really good, transparent and open thing to do. It might encourage more people to attend.

They really should do this though.

 

[miss minnie]

Alternatively why not ask for a volunteer perhaps from this thread who can go and meet with Brad and ask all the right questions and record everything that is said and report back to this thread. Then there will be some really good material to discuss here more interesting material than isn't their website rubbish and how inadequate their consultation is et al. Brad will have done his walking tour chat and people here can argue the toss and everyone will be happy.

Surely there is more to Brixton Green than just *brad* though? He is what, the chairperson? Not sure what their rules are but in fair dinkum co-ops, management committees are elected every year. Can brad be voted out?

 

[Fenian]

Surely there is more to Brixton Green than just *brad* though? He is what, the chairperson? Not sure what their rules are but in fair dinkum co-ops, management committees are elected every year. Can brad be voted out?

According to their web-site the two staff members are Brad and Sandra Reid.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Interesting.

 

[Fenian]

Deleted.

 

[miss minnie]

Article in the Independent with images...

Brixton Green Community Land Trust founder Philippe Castaing (left) with fellow campaigners Sandra Reid and Bradley Carroll