Tanks for the Memories

[Fuchs66]

We've covered this already, we're having the civilian definition of tanks which is anything with tracks and a big gun.

And some armoured personnel carriers.

And some armoured cars.

And whatever else we fancy.

Oh FFS if we can't be pedantic here what's the point?

 

[spitfire]

TANK!

 

[Idris2002]

Not a tank!

I'll "not a tank" you, you wee fecker. . .

 

[spitfire]

This should send the pedants over the edge.

It's not a Sherman!

 

[Idris2002]

South Korean tank for crossing rivers.

 

[Idris2002]

Even tank designers had trouble with the whole "tracked vehicle" concept in the early years:

 

[Idris2002]

"The last appearance by WWII German tanks on the world’s battlefields came in 1967, when Syria’s panzer force faced off against modern Israeli armor. Quite improbably, Syria had assembled it’s collection of ex-Wehrmacht vehicles from a half-dozen sources over a decade and a half timeframe."

Panzers in the Golan Heights

Looks like a real timesuck of a blog there, so gang warily.

 

[spitfire]

OK, this is definitely off topic but Idris2002 reminded me of it.

 

[spitfire]

"The last appearance by WWII German tanks on the world’s battlefields came in 1967, when Syria’s panzer force faced off against modern Israeli armor. Quite improbably, Syria had assembled it’s collection of ex-Wehrmacht vehicles from a half-dozen sources over a decade and a half timeframe."

Panzers in the Golan Heights

Looks like a real timesuck of a blog there, so gang warily.

Luckiest tank ever!

A “half-breed” Panzer IV which Syria bought from Czechoslovakia. It has components of both the Ausf H and Ausf J versions. This individual tank had a remarkable life. It first served with the Wehrmacht on the Ostfront, then was captured and placed into service with the Soviet army, who used it in combat against the Germans in 1945. It was then transferred to Czechoslovakia which later sold it to Syria. In 1967 it was captured by Israel, and today is in an American museum which has repainted it in WWII German colors.

 

[Idris2002]

This, apparently, is a WW1 French Renault light tank, still in use in 1980s Afghanistan:

 

[Bakunin]

This should send the pedants over the edge.

It's not a Sherman!

No, it's not.

It's an M18 hellcat tank destroyer.

 

[spitfire]

EXACTLY!

Genuine question, where does a tank destroyer sit on the spectrum? Is it a tank or an SPG or just a tank destroyer? It has no roof which is very untanklike.

 

[gosub]

 

[Idris2002]

WW2 rubber tank

 

[Bakunin]

WW2 rubber tank

Part of the deception operation code-named Fortitude.

Thousands of fake tanks, planes, landing craft, barges to mislead photo-recon aircraft. backed up with fake intelligence reports from captured German agents in Operation Double Cross and regularly-broadcast fake radio traffic between allied units that didn't exist in places suggesting Operation Overlord would happen in the Pas-de-Calais region instead of Normandy.

 

[Casually Red]

Interesting that the blurb doesn't include Ireland in this year of British revolution.

Probably because Ireland isn't in Britain . It's a different island . A quick look at a British passport will tell you..Great Britain and...

 

[ferrelhadley]

Ontos. A sort of load of recoilless rifles on a very light tank. It was supposed to be airborne fire support or something.

 

[Idris2002]

Probably because Ireland isn't in Britain . It's a different island . A quick look at a British passport will tell you..Great Britain and...

It was part of the British state then, though, as you know fine well.

 

[Idris2002]

Part of the deception operation code-named Fortitude.

Thousands of fake tanks, planes, landing craft, barges to mislead photo-recon aircraft. backed up with fake intelligence reports from captured German agents in Operation Double Cross and regularly-broadcast fake radio traffic between allied units that didn't exist in places suggesting Operation Overlord would happen in the Pas-de-Calais region instead of Normandy.

Oh. So you mean HM Forces didn't have special fetish battalions?

 

[Bakunin]

Oh. So you mean HM Forces didn't have special fetish battalions?

They've got the biscuit game, if that's your thing.

 

[dylanredefined]

EXACTLY!

Genuine question, where does a tank destroyer sit on the spectrum? Is it a tank or an SPG or just a tank destroyer? It has no roof which is very untanklike.

It is a tank destroyer. Not as armoured as a tank and often does not have a rotating turret like a tank and is not designed for indirect fire like a self-propelled gun. Rather killing tanks by direct fire.

 

[Idris2002]

It is a tank destroyer. Not as armoured as a tank and often does not have a rotating turret like a tank and is not designed for indirect fire like a self-propelled gun. Rather killing tanks by direct fire.

Do the crew have to wear rubber, though? (asking for a friend)

 

[gosub]

Do the crew have to wear rubber, though? (asking for a friend)

are you mad? cotton only if you want any chance in a fire

 

[kebabking]

I think that 'tank destoyer' is arms dealer speak for 'cheap, shitty tank' - all very well if it can get a shot off first, but utterly fucked as soon as the actual tank starts shooting back...

 

[dylanredefined]

Do the crew have to wear rubber, though? (asking for a friend)

Only if they want to.Though on duty Nomex is the preferred option

 

[dylanredefined]

I think that 'tank destoyer' is arms dealer speak for 'cheap, shitty tank' - all very well if it can get a shot off first, but utterly fucked as soon as the actual tank starts shooting back...

They were very good at what they did. Tanks got better though so after ww2 a bit pointless.

 

[Idris2002]

Was the basic idea that without a turret the chassis could carry a heavier gun with a longer range?

 

[kebabking]

Was the basic idea that without a turret the chassis could carry a heavier gun with a longer range?

I think so - the fact that a much simpler vehicle would be vastly cheaper than a normal tank is, of course, not a factor - the basic idea was to see the tank before they saw you, use the bigger gun to shoot them first, then leg it before the tanks could fire effectively back, get to a pre-prepared hide, turn around and go through the process again.

From the recall the wartime versions got heavier and heavier as armour was applied and reinforced because the basic idea was flawed and the tanks shot back, and as they got heavier they got even less mobile and therefore even more vulnerable.

There are still some in service, and still being produced, but when they get marketed the price is a big thing the manufacturer pushes - hence the 'cheap, shitty tank's label...

 

[spitfire]

I discovered yesterday some Stug's even had concrete armour applied. Here's a pic of one the yanks press ganged into service.

 

[StoneRoad]

For concrete "armour" you can include the Thorneycroft Bison ...

btm - bison par StoneRoad2013, on ipernity