Susan Boyle and Adam Lambert

[berniedicters]

To the extent that you're interested, try Youtubing up the live performances of that song or others by him. Most of my exposure was on the tv show itself, where I assume they haven't had time to electronically doctor the performances.

They use it live.

What you say is right: there are times that he and others don't quite get the note, but I think it's possible to overlook a minor slip or two, if the overall performance is good. It seemed to me that his performances were very good, with or without the doctoring.

OK, I just listened to him doing an a cappela bit of Bohemian Rhapsody, followed by that thing by Four Non Blondes.

His intonation is poor. Lots of passion, lots of pyrotechnics, all the usual prettyboy stuff.

But he's not a good singer, even if he performs well.

ETA: just listened to a studio recording of "Mad World". I couldn't say for sure that he's got pitch correction on there, but the pitching is almost too good to be true, and the vocal has a rather over-processed sound to my ears. Not bad, though. But...well, nothing outstanding.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

They use it live.



OK, I just listened to him doing an a cappela bit of Bohemian Rhapsody, followed by that thing by Four Non Blondes.

His intonation is poor. Lots of passion, lots of pyrotechnics, all the usual prettyboy stuff.

But he's not a good singer, even if he performs well.

ETA: just listened to a studio recording of "Mad World". I couldn't say for sure that he's got pitch correction on there, but the pitching is almost too good to be true, and the vocal has a rather over-processed sound to my ears. Not bad, though. But...well, nothing outstanding.

You have the trained ear, not me.

But do you think his coming in second has more to do with his poor intonation, or with the fact that he's homosexual?

 

[pk]

I can honestly say I don't know who you're talking about.

I went to school with someone called Adam Lambert. He was alright.

I doubt it is he.

I guess I can explain the techie process behind it with some degree of accuracy having played with it a bit, and of course there is a degree of variability to which it can be used, literally applying the correction effect with a dial between 0 + 100% to allow for a bit of key wibbling, but in a live scenario the main vocal parts will have a predetermined note set to which the vocals will be dragged.

It runs off the same system as the lighting and the backing track, using MIDI sequencing.

Britney Spears uses it right now. Bless her.

 

[pk]

ETA: just listened to a studio recording of "Mad World". I couldn't say for sure that he's got pitch correction on there, but the pitching is almost too good to be true, and the vocal has a rather over-processed sound to my ears. Not bad, though. But...well, nothing outstanding.

I just listened to his take on Mad World...



He does a pretty decent job.

I can't discern any pitch correction, but in a studio you have the benefit of editing the best nuances and breathy vocal from multiples takes, pitch correct them and amalgamate them and layer them to create one track.
It's the essence of studio work and pretty much everyone does it.

This of course you can't pull off live in the same way - though you can bet with a good backing track you can ride the faders if you're a keen engineer and make him sound good.

I thought it sounded OK, all things considered. But it's such an emotive song to begin with, it's hard to fuck it up. Maybe I'll try to do so one day.

 

[Guineveretoo]

^This.

The whole fuss surrounding Susan Boyle is the 'novelty' of a plain woman with a good voice. When she first appeared, people were expecting some kind of embarrasing car-crash performance and were surprised that she could actually sing. Then the tabloids picked up on it and things snowballed.

This!

In fact, I reckon that, if she hadn't been what JC2 called "homely", she may not have got anywhere in the competition, because her voice really is nothing special. The prejudice was in those expectations, rather than the later voting patterns.

The winning act are wonderful - innovative, dedicated, and talented. I am really glad that they won and not Susan Boyle.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I just listened to his take on Mad World...



He does a pretty decent job.

I can't discern any pitch correction, but in a studio you have the benefit of editing the best nuances and breathy vocal from multiples takes, pitch correct them and amalgamate them and layer them to create one track.
It's the essence of studio work and pretty much everyone does it.

This of course you can't pull off live in the same way - though you can bet with a good backing track you can ride the faders if you're a keen engineer and make him sound good.

I thought it sounded OK, all things considered. But it's such an emotive song to begin with, it's hard to fuck it up. Maybe I'll try to do so one day.

Here's the live version: how does it compare to the studio version, given your practiced ear:



or, for that matter, his take on Ring of Fire:

 

[scifisam]

I think you're right about what it takes to become a successful performer, but if what you're having is a 'talent show', shouldn't it be the talent that wins it?

Yes, it should. The winners of the BGT really were very talented. They were tight, gymanstic, graceful, and had absolutely astounding choreography.

If you want diversity, Diversity (the winners) do provide that too. A bunch of 13-25-year old lads from very ordinary backgrounds (no stage schools), of varying races, with jobs ranging from bathroom fitter and telesales operative to physics student and MBA grad (and, of course, school student).

Susan Boyle was quite good, I thought, but they were better. What the others say might well be right - her looks were her USP and the reason she got through to the final when a younger, more conventionally pretty person might have got voted out. She does have a nice voice, though, so it's not like she was just there out of pity.

Welcome back, BTW.

 

[pk]

Here's the live version: how does it compare to the studio version, given your practiced ear:



or, for that matter, his take on Ring of Fire:

Actually I think he's singing for real. He's ever so slightly flat on a couple of mid-tonal notes.

And also here - the CBS show in NYC


There's a clearly flat note around the 1:40 mark.

So, I don't think he has the benefit of processing. His voice is capable of octave jumping by itself, which is an odd effect and can be confused with sound processing.

The best example is to be heard from the amazing larynx of a girl called JoJo



She's a bit manufactured Britney-esque pop, but when she gets going she can sing most of her peers off the stage.

Listen at 1:38, she's doing it just like Lambert.
Again at 2:02.
And 3:34 is the most promising potential in her voice, no doubt blanded out by the shite producers that she'll end up with.

It's a pretty good song too - and she's a better singer than Britney will ever be.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes, it should. The winners of the BGT really were very talented. They were tight, gymanstic, graceful, and had absolutely astounding choreography.

If you want diversity, Diversity (the winners) do provide that too. A bunch of 13-25-year old lads from very ordinary backgrounds (no stage schools), of varying races, with jobs ranging from bathroom fitter and telesales operative to physics student and MBA grad (and, of course, school student).

Susan Boyle was quite good, I thought, but they were better. What the others say might well be right - her looks were her USP and the reason she got through to the final when a younger, more conventionally pretty person might have got voted out. She does have a nice voice, though, so it's not like she was just there out of pity.

Welcome back, BTW.

Thanks.

I just listened to this song. It's an incredible piece of torch singing, to my layperson's ear.



Listen to that song, but in another tab, and meanwhile, look at this photo of one of the contestants of American Idol. Pretend it's her voice.

I didn't see the gymnasts, but I think that these looks [Megan Corkrey] and that [Susan's] incredible voice, would have taken the place by storm. Imo.

 

[pk]

This is a better photo:

I'd hit it so hard, it would cause a rift in time and space.

 

[Jazzz]

How does one distinguish pitch corrected vocals, from vocals that were sung in the proper pitch?

The notes are always dead on pitch, they never bend/slide. Where it's apparent is when you might get clinical grace notes or trills that might even be impossible to attempt naturally.

 

[Jonti]

... as she dodged?

 

[Jonti]

Susan Boyle, the real People's Princess!

<wipes a tear>

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Her voice reminds me of Lulu:



but Lulu looked like this:

People want, or wanted someone who looks like that to sing 'cry me a river' to them.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

This is a better photo:

I'd hit it so hard, it would cause a rift in time and space.

I went for a pic of her actually singing, not vamping for your personal pleasure.

Megan is a well-turned-out lass.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The notes are always dead on pitch, they never bend/slide. Where it's apparent is when you might get clinical grace notes or trills that might even be impossible to attempt naturally.

Wouldn't they correct basically any singing that goes through the studio, intended for commercial release?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I've never seen this before: I assume it's Susan's first appearance. I think there's something sad about it.


They introduce her. They ask her questions: she's from the village. Eyes in the audience are rolling. There's an air of amusement/bemusement.

Then, she sings, and everyone jumps up applauding. "Lookit that: the homely girl can sing!"

The judges say: 'that was a complete shock!' Why?

Because she's ugly. If it had been some gorgeous dish, the applause would have been very appreciative, based on her singing, but there would have been none of the 'shock', because a pretty girl singing well, isn't a big surprise to people.

It's like the little girl who sang the song at the Chinese Olympics. The actual singer, who was on tape, didn't look as good as the lip synching little princess who was put up on the stage. At least the Chinese admit it: the pretty girl was more in keeping with the image they wanted to present. The homely girl didn't fit.

The unfortunate thing for Susan Boyle, is that she is an oddball act, like one of the clowns who comes out at the three ring circus, while the wire walkers and the girls in tights and short skirts set up for the next acrobatic routine.

It's unfortunate, because I believe her when she says that she really wants to be a performer.

Maybe the world will prove me wrong, and she'll go on to a successful singing career. We'll have to wait and see. Here's hoping that it does in fact prove me wrong.

 

[Jazzz]

Wouldn't they correct basically any singing that goes through the studio, intended for commercial release?

hmm, it does apparently seem to be very common now.

 

[isitme]

It isn't a surprise to see plain or fugly people becoming succesful singers, there are countless examples of that. it is a surprise to see them on those talent shows because they are clearly looking for conventionally attractive, young people who can sing and dance a bit etc

I read a thing about the American Idol contest how it was a gay californian vs a midwest xtian and was meant to mean so much. that wouldn't be the case in england, I think most people would find it bizzarre if a newspaper made anything out of the fact that a popular entertainer was gay.

 

[Jonti]

She'll be back, for sure.

She suffered a lack of oxygen at birth, JC2, which has left her a little slow on the uptake. But, with her drive and ambition to perform, if she gets support and protection by a team who care about her, I reckon she can be a great success. At least in the land of crooked teeth and bad hair.

She has been dubbed the real People's Princess -- and I've a feeling things can only get better for her from now on. I certainly hope so!

 

[isitme]

She'll be back, for sure.

She suffered a lack of oxygen at birth, JC2, which has left her a little slow on the uptake. But, with her drive and ambition to perform, if she gets support and protection by a team who care about her, I reckon she can be a great success. At least in the land of crooked teeth and bad hair.

She has been dubbed the real People's Princess -- and I've a feeling things can only get better for her from now on. I certainly hope so!

she'll never be a pop star. everyone liked the fact that she was this strange looking middle aged woman who it turned out could sing, it was a big hit on the TV show, but how many people are going to buy her albums etc?

she isn't amazing, the only standout thing is that she doesn't look like a popstar. noone ever mentioned the fact that Nina Simone looked rough as fuck

 

[Epona]

Hasn't there been some accusation of the American Idol results being rigged by AT&T reps turning up at parties held in favour of the eventual winner with devices that could send multiple texts at a time? I really liked Adam Lambert and was quite disappointed that he didn't win. I think Megan is a very attractive young woman, but her voice made me want to repeatedly smash my head into a wall every time she opened her mouth.

BGT though Diversity definitely deserved to win. Their routines were amazingly innovative, the one who did the choreography is a genius, they were absolutely astounding. Boyle is a good singer, but I didn't think that there was anything truly head and shoulders above the rest about her performances - other than the "shock" (not to me but ykwim!) of someone who isn't young and pretty being able to sing well, which I find a very confusing reaction anyway. I would rather watch an amazing and witty dance routine than hear someone sing numbers from musicals any day (I do appreciate that's just my opinion!)

 

[Jonti]

Granted she's never going to be a pop star -- but she just wants to sing, and in front of large audiences. She can do that!

 

[isitme]

if you ever go to a folk festival there are plenty of homely women etc headline

it's only in pop that everyone looks the same

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

she'll never be a pop star. everyone liked the fact that she was this strange looking middle aged woman who it turned out could sing, it was a big hit on the TV show, but how many people are going to buy her albums etc?

she isn't amazing, the only standout thing is that she doesn't look like a popstar. noone ever mentioned the fact that Nina Simone looked rough as fuck

Not sure what you mean about Nina Simone.

 

[Epona]

if you ever go to a folk festival there are plenty of homely women etc headline

it's only in pop that everyone looks the same

There's no denying that the pop industry and media set an "aesthetic standard" if you like, which I think does impact upon the expectations of many viewers, especially when it comes to female performers. We're no longer used to seeing less than perfect non-airbrushed female icons on screen and in print, and when less than flattering images of popular female stars appear in print they are usually accompanied by captions aimed at ridicule. Plenty of fantastic female singers have been told by the music industry that they need to lose weight or change their look in some way in order to get signed - it's not good enough in many mainstream genres simply to have a great voice, because they are marketing the whole not just the voice, and it's easier to market a woman who looks the part as far as they are concerned. I know I don't need to point this out to you!

 

[isitme]

Not sure what you mean about Nina Simone.

i must have been thinking of another one of the most famous jazz ladies. one of them definetely looks more like she'd eat your soul than touch it with her voice

 

[isitme]

There's no denying that the pop industry and media set an "aesthetic standard" if you like, which I think does impact upon the expectations of many viewers, especially when it comes to female performers. We're no longer used to seeing less than perfect non-airbrushed female icons on screen and in print, and when less than flattering images of popular female stars appear in print they are usually accompanied by captions aimed at ridicule. Plenty of fantastic female singers have been told by the music industry that they need to lose weight or change their look in some way in order to get signed - it's not good enough in many mainstream genres simply to have a great voice, because they are marketing the whole not just the voice, and it's easier to market a woman who looks the part as far as they are concerned. I know I don't need to point this out to you!

and they don't even look like that anyway.....

the gossip columns always print pictures of them without makeup and computer assistance going to the shops in trackie bottomes or whatever looking like normal people and say they look rough as fuck

 

[Epona]

and they don't even look like that anyway.....

the gossip columns always print pictures of them without makeup and computer assistance going to the shops in trackie bottomes or whatever looking like normal people and say they look rough as fuck

Exactly - it's an image which no-one real can meet 100% of the time. Take a woman who is a bit older and average looking without a small fortune to spend on clothes/hair/makeover/plastic surgery/image and it's become the general perception (thanks to the media with its focus on surface appearance) that she's likely to be a bit of a waste of space, so it becomes surprising that someone who doesn't fit the image can sing. It's a sad indictment of the current obsession with image and looks.

 

[rhod]

I just listened to this song. It's an incredible piece of torch singing, to my layperson's ear.

I'm going to get lynched by the musos for suggesting this, but SuBo's breathy and heartfelt style reminds me a little of
(sorta )