Support the French Rioters!
- Thread starter ClassWar
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In Bloom said:Yeah, because that's exactly how everybody else has interpretted isn't it, toby?
And just because the only mainstream reporting about Brussels and Berlin has been about burnt out cars, doesn't mean nothing else is going on.
The whole point is that burning of cars is the only thing that had been reported from Brussels and Berlin.
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
montevideo said:
Montey, i am not joking, i will part pay for your ticket to france if you catch a coach or something fairly cheap.
Seriously. I think it would be interesting.
Edited to add: are wombles not already making their way to france? Seems the obvious thing to do.
Ah shit you dragged me on to this alienated form of communication 
My two pennies worth:
If we arguing about whether the riots in france are "good" or "bad" then I think we should all become priests and judges and get the fuck out of anarchist activity!
The riots are interesting (not in a spectator role/armchair/libcom way) but to see the potentiality of non-idealogically based insurrections - with all the pro's and con's (as if we can pick and choose the "best bits"?).
The French state has lost it's "monopoly on violence" and has lost control on certain aspects of the population, namely immigrant proletariats (and prec@riats!!
). Instead of arguing about disabled women being set on fire (which I'm sure everyone who isn't a psycho path despises) why don't we look at why and how these riots have spread, and why riots spread in the first place.
Secondly, if the struggles of the past 200 years are anything to learn about especially those involving insurrections/riots, they all have the capacity (when state control is undermined or made worthless) to construct new social realities. By that I mean, what couldn't be possible yesterday is possible today - what that possibility is becomes an interest to us as anarchists - precisely becuase we attempt to propogate and initiate attempts at challenging capitalism as the ONLY way of human/social relationship.
For all the damaged caused and for those that think the "anti-social scum" has destoyed materially what they had (nurseries, cars, schools, mcdonalds?) they have probably now become the biggest contributors to re-development of amenities in that areas history. Imagine the Billions of euros that are gonna pour into social regeneration, social housing, grants, youth clubs, nurseries, record studios...etc you name it. Indeed I'm not assumiung nothing but maybe they know that
On a related point: Some interviews with participants of the riots are talking about armed struggle against the french state (acquiring grenades, AK..etc).
Wonder what peoples reaction to this will be?
anyway just some random thoughts
A
p.s. revol68 is a cock and so is John.
My two pennies worth:
If we arguing about whether the riots in france are "good" or "bad" then I think we should all become priests and judges and get the fuck out of anarchist activity!
The riots are interesting (not in a spectator role/armchair/libcom way) but to see the potentiality of non-idealogically based insurrections - with all the pro's and con's (as if we can pick and choose the "best bits"?).
The French state has lost it's "monopoly on violence" and has lost control on certain aspects of the population, namely immigrant proletariats (and prec@riats!!
). Instead of arguing about disabled women being set on fire (which I'm sure everyone who isn't a psycho path despises) why don't we look at why and how these riots have spread, and why riots spread in the first place. Secondly, if the struggles of the past 200 years are anything to learn about especially those involving insurrections/riots, they all have the capacity (when state control is undermined or made worthless) to construct new social realities. By that I mean, what couldn't be possible yesterday is possible today - what that possibility is becomes an interest to us as anarchists - precisely becuase we attempt to propogate and initiate attempts at challenging capitalism as the ONLY way of human/social relationship.
For all the damaged caused and for those that think the "anti-social scum" has destoyed materially what they had (nurseries, cars, schools, mcdonalds?) they have probably now become the biggest contributors to re-development of amenities in that areas history. Imagine the Billions of euros that are gonna pour into social regeneration, social housing, grants, youth clubs, nurseries, record studios...etc you name it. Indeed I'm not assumiung nothing but maybe they know that
On a related point: Some interviews with participants of the riots are talking about armed struggle against the french state (acquiring grenades, AK..etc).
Wonder what peoples reaction to this will be?
anyway just some random thoughts
A
p.s. revol68 is a cock and so is John.
)
revol68
what, fucking what?
Raw SslaC said:Ah shit you dragged me on to this alienated form of communication
My two pennies worth:
If we arguing about whether the riots in france are "good" or "bad" then I think we should all become priests and judges and get the fuck out of anarchist activity!
The riots are interesting (not in a spectator role/armchair/libcom way) but to see the potentiality of non-idealogically based insurrections - with all the pro's and con's (as if we can pick and choose the "best bits"?).
The French state has lost it's "monopoly on violence" and has lost control on certain aspects of the population, namely immigrant proletariats (and prec@riats!!
Secondly, if the struggles of the past 200 years are anything to learn about especially those involving insurrections/riots, they all have the capacity (when state control is undermined or made worthless) to construct new social realities. By that I mean, what couldn't be possible yesterday is possible today - what that possibility is becomes an interest to us as anarchists - precisely becuase we attempt to propogate and initiate attempts at challenging capitalism as the ONLY way of human/social relationship.
For all the damaged caused and for those that think the "anti-social scum" has destoyed materially what they had (nurseries, cars, schools, mcdonalds?) they have probably now become the biggest contributors to re-development of amenities in that areas history. Imagine the Billions of euros that are gonna pour into social regeneration, social housing, grants, youth clubs, nurseries, record studios...etc you name it. Indeed I'm not assumiung nothing but maybe they know that
On a related point: Some interviews with participants of the riots are talking about armed struggle against the french state (acquiring grenades, AK..etc).
Wonder what peoples reaction to this will be?
anyway just some random thoughts
A
p.s. revol68 is a cock and so is John.
well yes it will be interesting to see what comes out of it, though i think everyone is getting abit ahead of themselves in seeing this as some sort of frontal assault on the state, we will see more redevelopment and perhaps the French will even embrace multiculturalism as the british state did after the riots of the 80's.
I await the creation of a layer of community representatives, spokespersons etc.
what it is interesting though is just how predictable this sort of thing was, the whole thing looks like La Haine 2 ffs.
But ultimately the real proof of the pudding is when the economic reforms start getting pushed hard, the organised working class alongside, angry unemployed kids could really see something emerge, without the wider working class i'm afraid I don't see these riots doing much more than being a wake up call to the state which arrogant dismissal of those in the suburbs is really quite unique within western europe.
Taxamo Welf said:
Shades of the Workers Power International Brigades for Iraq here. I think there is a few of us who would be willing to put our hands in our pockets for a one way ticket for Monty.
Raw SslaC said:For all the damaged caused and for those that think the "anti-social scum" has destoyed materially what they had (nurseries, cars, schools, mcdonalds?) they have probably now become the biggest contributors to re-development of amenities in that areas history. Imagine the Billions of euros that are gonna pour into social regeneration, social housing, grants, youth clubs, nurseries, record studios...etc you name it. Indeed I'm not assumiung nothing but maybe they know that
this is an important point - does anyone think these riots even with a rightwing government won't lead to attempts at regeneration of the communities affected?
can anyone point to any examples where this sort of rioting hasnt led to direct increases in investment and other attempts at increasing social inclusion (however cack handed and ideologically unsound)
fuck it, i was wobbling a bit in a liberal way - but no, i was wrong
support the rioters!
the thing to remember is, there is no such thing as a perfect anarchist riot - there will always be problems, there will always be nasty stuff going on - are we going to wait for the perfect insurrection before we get our hands dirty?
seriously if stuff like this is going on down the road from you, would you not want to get involved in whatever way?
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
effectively with todays transport system it is.
my offer stands
Go on do it. I know the wombles can (through lack of work commitments)
my offer stands
Go on do it. I know the wombles can (through lack of work commitments)
Anyone got more information about the riots in Germany, Belgium, Denmark (maybe Italy as well)? All I've seen is single line mentions of it - and most of those have been in very right wing sources.
Everyone remembers the reports about New Orleans about mass rapes, armed gangs etc. in the convention centre especially - that were later admitted to be false or massive exaggerations. Stuff about the nursery and the disabled woman on the bus, although it might well be true, could also be stuff that's being reported without any proper evidence.
Everyone remembers the reports about New Orleans about mass rapes, armed gangs etc. in the convention centre especially - that were later admitted to be false or massive exaggerations. Stuff about the nursery and the disabled woman on the bus, although it might well be true, could also be stuff that's being reported without any proper evidence.
The other thing about the riots is that the class nature of religion (and obviously police - in protecting property) is revealed. The Islamic Organisations of France has issued a Fatwa on the riots ( I assume the rioters as well). This happened in Bradford and Oldham were the parents and mosque hierarchy grassed up "their own" ("their own" my arse!). What do you think this reaction will do? IMO It will probably undermine (if the french youths aren't isolated) the religious aspects of those communities, which can only be a good thing.
The longer it goes on, the more chance that confidence grows of the youths and they have fundementally the french state held to ransom. Any demands might resonate amongst other sections of society. For example the demand for "Sarkozy to resign!", is a very strong articulation that develops the politics of the rioters, politicises them and communicates them. A friend of mine told me of an incident where "Sarkozy" in August was doing a radio interview (this was after he said that the ghettos were gonna be cleared out with a hose!) and all you could here in the background was youths chanting "Fuck Sarkozy up the arse!" (in french).
One bit of militant research that some of us r gonna attempt is interviews some of those involved (some people have gone to paris already to do this) as well as comparisans with 1981 but als 1984-86 period in the UK. There was a brillian thing written by George Katsificas about the comparisons with the paris commune and another place (slipped my mind!) and it had developed some analyitical tools to compare the two places/insurrections. In included things like level of self-organisation, curbing anti-social violence (violence which was deemed against the cause), political demands...etc. Would be good to add things like social indentification (how people see themselves in each other - useful interms of why the riots spread).
blah blah bollox....
Al
p.s. rednblack is a cock
p.p.s. The disabled women I have read was in a wheel chair on a bus that was stopped, people were cleared off the bus and the bus was set on fire. From this report it doesn't assume if people didn't see her because she was in a wheelchair or people were badly organised. For any of you lot that went to thessaloniki and saw the stupidity of some people (throwing badly made molotovs resulting in burning their own backs! and throwing molotovs into shops that people were looting!) also in Genoa (shit cars getting burnt, flats being burnt!) Come on we all know why some stupid shit like that happens what to this wasn't the same??
The longer it goes on, the more chance that confidence grows of the youths and they have fundementally the french state held to ransom. Any demands might resonate amongst other sections of society. For example the demand for "Sarkozy to resign!", is a very strong articulation that develops the politics of the rioters, politicises them and communicates them. A friend of mine told me of an incident where "Sarkozy" in August was doing a radio interview (this was after he said that the ghettos were gonna be cleared out with a hose!) and all you could here in the background was youths chanting "Fuck Sarkozy up the arse!" (in french).
One bit of militant research that some of us r gonna attempt is interviews some of those involved (some people have gone to paris already to do this) as well as comparisans with 1981 but als 1984-86 period in the UK. There was a brillian thing written by George Katsificas about the comparisons with the paris commune and another place (slipped my mind!) and it had developed some analyitical tools to compare the two places/insurrections. In included things like level of self-organisation, curbing anti-social violence (violence which was deemed against the cause), political demands...etc. Would be good to add things like social indentification (how people see themselves in each other - useful interms of why the riots spread).
blah blah bollox....
Al
p.s. rednblack is a cock
p.p.s. The disabled women I have read was in a wheel chair on a bus that was stopped, people were cleared off the bus and the bus was set on fire. From this report it doesn't assume if people didn't see her because she was in a wheelchair or people were badly organised. For any of you lot that went to thessaloniki and saw the stupidity of some people (throwing badly made molotovs resulting in burning their own backs! and throwing molotovs into shops that people were looting!) also in Genoa (shit cars getting burnt, flats being burnt!) Come on we all know why some stupid shit like that happens what to this wasn't the same??
revol68
what, fucking what?
catch said:
nah man the nursery school thing is definately true, the disabled woman on the bus story i don't know about.
I don't think it's a matter of making shit up, just grasping on every story they can, which makes things seem disproportionate, the irony is that the general crime rate aside from that linked to the riots is probably lower than your average day.
Top Dog
Well-Known Member
good post raw sslacRaw SslaC said:The French state has lost it's "monopoly on violence" and has lost control on certain aspects of the population, namely immigrant proletariats (and prec@riats!!
I got this from an email sent to me:
Hello,
I live in St-Denis near Paris.
It's true that some young people here are angry so they burn cars. They are not organize at all. They are fed up with racisme, social problems and the attitude of Police. The beginning of this revolt comes from the death of 2 young men and another one who was seriously injured in Clichy sous Bois.
They wanted to escape from the police who wanted to control their identity.
So they hide themselves in an electrical power plant and were electrocuted.
The minister Nicolas Sarkozy said about the 3 young men that they were
delinquent that's why police was runing after them. Then he said that the young people were afraid but the police never run after them. So Nicolas Sarkozy lied about the facts to protect policemen.
In Clichy sous Bois the young people were angry against the police. They began to burn some cars to answer to the police provocations. Then the police force launched gases in a mosque. In other suburbs the young people heard the story by the media. Every nigths they burn some cars or symbols of the state like schools but they don't attack people. During one week of riots only two people were attacked by the young people So it is very little compared with the many burned cars. The riots are spreading in others regions of France like : Lille, Toulouse, Bordeaux, Nantes, Strasbourg.....
Yesterday, the prime Minister : Dominique de Villepin declared the State of Emergency It means that police can impose a curfew in some districts and prohibit meetings. French activists call to a demonstration for tomorrow :
resignation of sarkozy
stop of police repression
social justice
Burning cars is not a solution but i understand the anger.
That's what i will demonstrate for.
Hello,
I live in St-Denis near Paris.
It's true that some young people here are angry so they burn cars. They are not organize at all. They are fed up with racisme, social problems and the attitude of Police. The beginning of this revolt comes from the death of 2 young men and another one who was seriously injured in Clichy sous Bois.
They wanted to escape from the police who wanted to control their identity.
So they hide themselves in an electrical power plant and were electrocuted.
The minister Nicolas Sarkozy said about the 3 young men that they were
delinquent that's why police was runing after them. Then he said that the young people were afraid but the police never run after them. So Nicolas Sarkozy lied about the facts to protect policemen.
In Clichy sous Bois the young people were angry against the police. They began to burn some cars to answer to the police provocations. Then the police force launched gases in a mosque. In other suburbs the young people heard the story by the media. Every nigths they burn some cars or symbols of the state like schools but they don't attack people. During one week of riots only two people were attacked by the young people So it is very little compared with the many burned cars. The riots are spreading in others regions of France like : Lille, Toulouse, Bordeaux, Nantes, Strasbourg.....
Yesterday, the prime Minister : Dominique de Villepin declared the State of Emergency It means that police can impose a curfew in some districts and prohibit meetings. French activists call to a demonstration for tomorrow :
resignation of sarkozy
stop of police repression
social justice
Burning cars is not a solution but i understand the anger.
That's what i will demonstrate for.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
nothing wrong with burning the right cars, mind...tobyjug said:
even tho' it isn't a solution...
According to the independent there has already been armed attacks on police.
"Last night 10 policemen were injured, two of them seriously, when youths opened fire with a shotgun in the Essonne region south of Paris"
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article325217.ece
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
how'd you know? doesn't say about the sort of gun &c in the article you linked totobyjug said:
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
perhaps tobyjug's recent trip to france wasn't as innocent as we all assumed!
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