Support the French Rioters!

[cockneyrebel]

for the last fucking time i never argued that you fuckng stupid trot cunt!

Now now, you're gonna explode if you're not careful.

What I'm talking about is the tone of some of the contributions on here. Talking about muggers and anti-social behaviour rather than the oppression of the French state.

Anyway I'll leave you to analyse away.....

 

[revol68]

Now now, you're gonna explode if you're not careful.

What I'm talking about is the tone of some of the contributions on here. Talking about muggers and anti-social behaviour rather than the oppression of the French state.

Anyway I'll leave you to analyse away.....

no one mentioned muggers you daft fuck!

the point was we we're arguing against some peoples "unconditional support" and then Monty and RednBlacks reidiculous relativism that led both of them to refuse to cross a racist picket line in solidarity with Enoch Powell.

I actually have a lot of time for the french rioters, especially cos a lot of them probably have the wit to retain the right to criticise their fellow travellers, unlike some middle class little activist pricks from Britain whose only concern is the spectacle of resistance.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Also in terms of "what can be done" and how the rioters can link up with the organised working class, what about the other side of the coin?

Are the French left (who are sizeable compared to the UK) and left unions organising protests in support of the rioters struggles against poverty and racism?

 

[montevideo]

no one mentioned muggers you daft fuck!

the point was we we're arguing against some peoples "unconditional support" and then Monty and RednBlacks reidiculous relativism that led both of them to refuse to cross a racist picket line in solidarity with Enoch Powell.

I actually have a lot of time for the french rioters, especially cos a lot of them probably have the wit to retain the right to criticise their fellow travellers, unlike some middle class little activist pricks from Britain whose only concern is the spectacle of resistance.

coming from a scab that's high praise indeed.

 

[revol68]

Also in terms of "what can be done" and how the rioters can link up with the organised working class, what about the other side of the coin?

Are the French left (who are sizeable compared to the UK) and left unions organising protests in support of the rioters struggles against poverty and racism?

yes that is important, my point was we should try and grasp to what extent some of the rioting makes arguing such a case easier or harder.

 

[revol68]

coming from a scab that's high praise indeed.

well no chance of you and your K fuelled mates ever having to scab, well unless your great leader gets you all summer jobs scabbin in the Vineyard!

 

[cockneyrebel]

no one mentioned muggers you daft fuck!

Icepick did in his first post when he talked about the incident in March when a bunch of students got mugged by some people from the suburbs.

unlike some middle class little activist pricks from Britain

From meeting RnB he doesn't meet this description, but there you go.

However I don't agree that you should never cross a picket line. For instance fascist unions had picket lines. Also if there was a picket against racism and black and Asian workers refused to go along with it, a left organiser would look a little odd going along with the strike to say the least.

 

[cockneyrebel]

yes that is important, my point was we should try and grasp to what extent some of the rioting makes arguing such a case easier or harder.

Whether it makes it harder or not, it is ashame the French left hasn't managed to organise any protests by the looks of it, especially as they have 1000s of members in the case of the PO and LCR.

 

[revol68]

Icepick did in his first post when he talked about the incident in March when a bunch of students got mugged by some people from the suburbs.



From meeting RnB he doesn't meet this description, but there you go.

that was mostly in relation to Montevideo.

and the mugging incident wasn't just some students getting mugged, which happens almost everyday.

It was a collective action upon a demostration, involving hundreds of youths, and why it is important is that it shows the fracture lines within the class, with those so marginalised that they see no hope through collective struggle against government reform and instead seegreater hope in collective oppurtunist muggings.

And the mugging was only brought up cos montevideo seems to think being working class makes every action radical and above comtempt.

 

[revol68]

Whether it makes it harder or not, it is ashame the French left hasn't managed to organise any protests by the looks of it, especially as they have 1000s of members in the case of the PO and LCR.

yes it is a pity but what do you want us to do, sit and whinge or try and understand the fragmentation within the working class that allows such things to happen?

My point is that some of the actions of the rioters point out a high degree of marginalisation from the wider working class and at the same time they only serve to further cement this estrangement.

it's also important (as Gary Younge argued today in his rather good column) to examine the lack of women involved in the unrest.

 

[cockneyrebel]

The mugging was nothing to do with the current riots. That kind of message ends up backing up the agenda of the media/French government.

Obviously decades of deprevation will lead to some criminality.

But as said rather than bemoan the lack of strategy of the rioters, what about the actions of the French left?

 

[rednblack]

So a few people from the suburbs mugged some students in March, so that's something to judge the rioters by?! How do you know they are in any way connected? Or are you saying if someone in your area does something, you should be judged by it?

it comes across as if he's saying that all the youths from the estates are muggers, i know he doesnt think that - but to some who doesnt know him it could come across that way

 

[cockneyrebel]

yes it is a pity but what do you want us to do, sit and whinge or try and understand the fragmentation within the working class that allows such things to happen?

But that's all you do seem to be doing, sitting there and whinging.

My point is that some of the actions of the rioters point out a high degree of marginalisation from the wider working class and at the same time they only serve to further cement this estrangement.

Which is why it is even more of ashame the French left seems to be doing little to bridge this divide by organising demonstrations in support of the rioters and against the French government.

 

[cockneyrebel]

as Gary Younge argued today in his rather good column

It was quite a good article

Amid the charred chassis and broken glass there is a vital point of principle to salvage: in certain conditions rioting is not just justified but may also be necessary, and effective. From the poll tax demonstrations to Soweto, history is littered with such cases; what were the French and American revolutions but riots endowed by Enlightenment principles and then blessed by history?......

Rioting should be neither celebrated nor fetishised, because ultimately it is a sign not of strength but weakness. Like a strike, it is often the last and most desperate weapon available to those with the least power. Rioting is a class act. Wealthy people don't do it because either they have the levers of democracy at their disposal, or they can rely on the state or private security firms to do their violent work for them, if need be.

Also totally agree with:

Many of these French youths may have had a ball last week, but what they really need is a party - a political organisation that will articulate their aspirations.

 

[sihhi]

French govt attmpts to make immediate curfew powers last for 3 months

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14694104.htm

Chirac, criticised for his low profile during the crisis, was to explain his decision to roll over the emergency powers in a television broadcast at 8 p.m. (1900 GMT), the first time he will have addressed the nation directly on the violence.

The government is expected to introduce the measure to parliament on Tuesday and should secure a comfortable majority.

Tally of arrests:

Police have arrested 2,767 people since the unrest began

 

[pidgeonhead]

typical cowardice on his part though

Yeah. Clearly shows cowardice, posting here, doesn't it?

I guess it does on your planet, anyway.

Oh and Taxamuppet "2 weeks in Palestine on daddy's credit card and I'm Noam Chomsky" Whelp ... just you keep me on ignore - saves you having to answer questions on why you seem intent to try and stir up more trouble than you could ever, ever handle with certain friends of mine who don't recall ever meeting you, doesn't it, eh kid?

In the meantime - the riots are fizzling out and there is still no trace of anarchist involvement whatsoever, save for a few bloggers trying to claim the burning of a few knackered Peugeots as a wevolutionary act.

Better luck next time, anarkids!

Maybe you should try some "voiture flambe" for real one day, it's good fun!

 

[rednblack]

post reported as multiple logins are against the FAQ

 

[flimsier]

post reported as multiple logins are against the FAQ

Grass!

 

[rednblack]

Grass!

post reported for off topic abuse

 

[flimsier]

post reported for off topic abuse

Lock&light clone!

 

[blamblam]

coming from a scab that's high praise indeed.

Ha ha - someone doesn't support a racist picket - so he's a scab. Amazing.

Well really it was his dad, and a sectarian picket, but still. But monte - his dad grew up in the violent estates of Belfast. "Who are you to judge" his actions, eh? You're such a ridiculous hypocrite.

Cockney - the mugging thing was in relation to people like monte saying you can't judge what's good and bad: if it's w/c people do it you have to support it. A ridiculous position, I'm sure you'll agree.

 

[Random]

Cockney - the mugging thing was in relation to people like monte saying you can't judge what's good and bad: if it's w/c people do it you have to support it. A ridiculous position, I'm sure you'll agree.

Hey, just because Monte is talking nonsens, that's no reason to go running to trots for support

 

[rednblack]

Lock&light clone!

silly boy

 

[flimsier]

silly boy

 

[revol68]

well my da grew up in the shitty estates of around Larne.

He is a right scabbing bastard though, I mean not only does he scab on sectarianism in the workplace he also does it outside. Infact when loyalists were bricking the army in a bid to invade a catholic area in Larne, he refused to join in.

Whether you think that is because he is a workerist who fails to see the potential in such riots or rather that his analysis was so good that he seen this as another chance to scab I'll leave you to call on.

Of course the fact he was going out with a catholic and had catholic mates was fuck all to do with it, he just saw it as a chance to scab on the working class.

 

[In Bloom]

well my da grew up in the shitty estates of around Larne.

He is a right scabbing bastard though, I mean not only does he scab on sectarianism in the workplace he also does it outside. Infact when loyalists were bricking the army in a bid to invade a catholic area in Larne, he refused to join in.

Whether you think that is because he is a workerist who fails to see the potential in such riots or rather that his analysis was so good that he seen this as another chance to scab I'll leave you to call on.

Of course the fact he was going out with a catholic and had catholic mates was fuck all to do with it, he just saw it as a chance to scab on the working class.

Shut up! Filthy scabspawn

Sadly necessary disclaimer: not being serious

 

[pidgeonhead]

post reported as multiple logins are against the FAQ

Except, as the Editor will confirm, I don't have another login.
The pk login was destroyed in Spain, at a bar overlooking the super-yachts in Puerto Banus.

For someone so anti-authoritarian, you seem keen on running to the authorities!

Maybe it's because your accusation of "coward!" is pitiful at best?

Whereas the accusations of "grass" seem to fit the bill, eh?

(oh, and lighten up mate)

 

[montevideo]

well my da grew up in the slum areas of central manchester (ardwick), never crossed a picket line but never voted for strike action either. Did his national service without question. Archetypal working class tory (in the cultural sense rather than the political). Neither side of the family had religious aspirations & for that i can only thank them.

And so it goes on...

 

[flimsier]

Except, as the Editor will confirm, I don't have another login.
The pk login was destroyed in Spain, at a bar overlooking the super-yachts in Puerto Banus.

For someone so anti-authoritarian, you seem keen on running to the authorities!

Maybe it's because your accusation of "coward!" is pitiful at best?

Whereas the accusations of "grass" seem to fit the bill, eh?

(oh, and lighten up mate)

Errm, you twat.

 

[revol68]

well my da grew up in the slum areas of central manchester (ardwick), never crossed a picket line but never voted for strike action either. Did his national service without question. Archetypal working class tory (in the cultural sense rather than the political). Neither side of the family had religious aspirations & for that i can only thank them.

And so it goes on...

and......

you spit on his working class pride by alligning yourself with a bunch of middle class activist k fiends.