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Support the French Rioters!

i can understand how people can be attacking revol so much, but i am a bit puzzled by icepick: all he did was try and temper the more OTT aspects of the OP. Which in fact Class War themselves have done if you look at the pdf leaflet that was printed - it is not the same as the OP. icepick has given a decent account of himself repeatedly, and has not been abusive or offhand.

How can calling for a little balance end up being interpreted as being reactionary*? Theres nothing to say that you couldn't agree with the points that Icepick has raised and still go on the demo in question. I would have (if i had known CW would temper their statement a little, amd more importantly if i lived in london). As it goes, the demo got 15 ppl which is less than the number of people supporting it on this thread i believe, which speaks for itself.

Interpreting the 'tempered' side of the argument as 'we hate riots and violence' as montey has is wrong: if you start making concrete steps to taking power back to the peiople you will come into conflict with the police soon enough, and then you will have to defend yourself. A communist of any strain knows this.

*whatever that stupid fucking word which most people would run 20 miles from means
 
pidgeonhead/PK

just checked to see what your last post said - yeah i've blocked 3 people and your 2 of them. I won't have nowt to read :rolleyes:
 
Taxamo Welf said:
i can understand how people can be attacking revol so much, but i am a bit puzzled by icepick: all he did was try and temper the more OTT aspects of the OP. Which in fact Class War themselves have done if you look at the pdf leaflet that was printed - it is not the same as the OP. icepick has given a decent account of himself repeatedly, and has not been abusive or offhand.

icepick said:
Hahahahahaaha good one! You silly boy real working class heroes don't have *jobs*. They're for the brainwashed automatons who believe in things like HIV.
:oops:

Sorry

*climbs back on high horse*
 
montevideo said:
you're not part of the runt litter tourettes. For you it's online multiplayer gaming & level 97 of doom between packets of cheesy wotsits & wiping up the detritus of self affection with your stale at the drive-in t-shirts.

More heat, apologies.

Poetry monty, effortless poetry .The Mark. E . Smith of independent anarchism. Fantastic life.
 
Taxamo Welf said:
if you start making concrete steps to taking power back to the peiople you will come into conflict with the police soon enough, and then you will have to defend yourself. A communist of any strain knows this.

But isn't this in part (no, quite evidently not all of it) what happened in Clichy-sur-Bois? [A group of innocent, young teenagers are playing football. Police drive in mentioning a break-in. Fearing arrest or hassle they run away and two are electrocuted dead and one injured in their escape.]
Young people in Clichy sur bois then attempt to "take power back to the people" when it is clear that no one else will do this for them- and they "come into conflict with the police" and then defend themselves by means of attack.
 
sihhi said:
But isn't this in part (no, quite evidently not all of it) what happened in Clichy-sur-Bois? [A group of innocent, young teenagers are playing football. Police drive in mentioning a break-in. Fearing arrest or hassle they run away and two are electrocuted dead and one injured in their escape.]
Young people in Clichy sur bois then attempt to "take power back to the people" when it is clear that no one else will do this for them- and they "come into conflict with the police" and then defend themselves by means of attack.
indeed :)
 
The measures were prompted by yesterday morning’s attack on the French Institute in central Athens in which about 50 hooded youths hurled paint at the building’s facade, smashed windows and spray-painted anarchist slogans. The attack followed a similar incident outside the French Institute in Thessaloniki on Thursday night, when around 40 anarchists, holding banners expressing their support for rioting youths in France, vandalized the entrance to the building. The youths eluded arrest.

Arsonists threw gasoline bombs at two car dealerships in central Athens overnight, burning 13 vehicles and causing damage to ten others. Police said the attacks occurred shortly after midnight at two neighbouring car dealerships for Mercedes and Citroen on central Alexandras avenue.

No arrests or injuries were reported

pelynyrhwyd.jpg
 
a few points of clarification...?

Why did:

the WOMBLES not put up the demo on either their site nor on their e-list

Cockneyrebel not attend the picket depite being in full support of it.
 
Thora said:
Why should they have?

Because it would give monte's expressions of "total and unconditional support" on this thread some element of real life application?

To avoid accusations of censorship?
 
Thora said:
Why should they have?
i truly bamboozles my noodle that you need to ask that. Surely and insurrection by the non-working disposessed (in their eyes) is exactly the kind of thing that the WOMBLES want to happen? Thora this is everything that the wombles is surely?
 
Taxamo Welf said:
i truly bamboozles my noodle that you need to ask that. Surely and insurrection by the non-working disposessed (in their eyes) is exactly the kind of thing that the WOMBLES want to happen? Thora this is everything that the wombles is surely?
Well, I don't know enough about les wombles politics and stuff to answer that, but wasn't the question why they didn't advertise that embassy picket, rather than about whether or not they support the riots, or have I missed the point :confused:
 
It's kinda sad the wombles had to resort to censoring this protest. :(

Perhaps someone should go to a meeting they're holding and totally ruin it by throwing it off topic by whining about it.

Oh, no, wait, that would make you a dick.
 
monte said:
we have the radical liberal approach towards the riots which seems to be: we must be very careful who & what we are supporting because the behaviour of some individuals goes against our model of class action. We must wait & see till after the riots have finished & class anger been quelled before we decide what all that was about. We cannot fitfully show solidarity for the riots because real workers were not involved.

the anarchist approach seems to be: this is a genuine expression of class anger & who are we to judge or condemn the actions & activities of those who after years & years of state repression & hostility, social exclusion & deprived economic circumstances are finally taking things into their own hands. Despite the lack of focus or organisation our job is to support the collective struggle of those fighting, almost always despairingly, against their condition.

Thora, Monte is quite clearly presenting his own view in that second paragraph, albeit in opposition to a straw man of other people's.

I don't see anything on his website even mentioning that these events are happening, let along expressing support (for that matter Cockney's organisation appears to have about 30 articles from November and none about this issue). Since he's using this as an opportunity to personally smear people I work with, I think I should point out that even though we nearly lost our entire site this week, we've been posting as much decent information as we can find on the riots on libcom since they started. At this stage, trying to get first-hand sources on what's going on, and beginning to understand the implications of these events is the best we can do.


As sovietpop says, it boils down to the semantics of the word 'support'. I think the discussion of those semantics has a degree of merit though - in the same way that the dialogue over the definitions of capital, class, communism etc. have some merit. Not all of them (including this thread), but some do.

None of us can offer practical solidarity, certainly not at this stage, so any statements of "support" are hollow. What we can do is try to get decent information out to as wide a variety of people as possible, and attempt to learn from these events through an honest assessment of their potentialities.

out of date now, but more on its way:
http://libcom.org/news/article.php?story=france-riots-2005-updates
 
catch said:
I think the discussion of those semantics has a degree of merit though - in the same way that the dialogue over the definitions of capital, class, communism etc. have some merit. Not all of them (including this thread)
I have actualy learnt a lot from this thread but not about france.

Good post catch.
 
rednblack said:
reminds me a little bit of john king of football factory fame actually :cool:

With perhaps, could I suggest, the slightest but vital ingredient of swarthy-ism that made that post a contender for post of the year.Deffo a top five anyway.
 
if thats a top fucking post i really pity urban, libcom has posts better than that every other day.
 
icepick said:
Hahahahahaaha good one! You silly boy real working class heroes don't have *jobs*. They're for the brainwashed automatons who believe in things like HIV.

actually monty does have a job :p
 
rednblack said:
reminds me a little bit of john king of football factory fame actually :cool:
have you got his latest 'The prison House'? Couldn't do it, got on my nerves. left it on the Megabus half finished and don't miss it at all. He uses the same character as the narrator in every book it would seem.

Loved human punk and the FF trilogy tho, wanted to get white trash too.

didn't the film stink? Fucking terrible. That bit where 'her bit of rough' boyfriend chooses the wrong wine - god it was like somethiung out of the 70's. What a joke. And to have some bullshit drug/drug dealing element that had fuck all to do with football as well - wtf? Time waste. I'd rather see the hobbit get down in that Green Street debacle.
 
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