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Suggesting someone at work gets assessed for autism?

'I wanted to talk to you about something I've noticed. I expect you to be able to make decisions about X on your own, as they are your responsibility, but I notice that often you don't make that decision without approval from Jim or Ted first. Could you explain to me why that is?'

Depending on what he says you can follow it up with:

'Seeking unnecessary approvals slows down our processes. So going forwards, I would like you to make these decisions by yourself, without seeking approval from Jim or Ted. What do you need from me to make that happen?'

Nnng. Not sure how that would play with me.
If he is lacking confidence, and they are actually good calls when he is seeking approval, I might try to bolster his confidence a bit by emphasising his record of making good calls, so he doesn't need Jim or Ted.

Not a manager, though, and that's just a personal angle.
 
Nnng. Not sure how that would play with me.
If he is lacking confidence, and they are actually good calls when he is seeking approval, I might try to bolster his confidence a bit by emphasising his record of making good calls, so he doesn't need Jim or Ted.

Not a manager, though, and that's just a personal angle.
It's just to try to start dialogue really, if it were me I would want to know if he'd been told to seek Jim or Ted's input by a previous manager, for example, or if Jim/Ted had caught a big mistake and told him to run stuff past them in future. So it might not necessarily be a confidence thing by this point, more of a 'i was told to do it like this' thing.

At this point I would say that I thought they were making good decisions and didn't need any additional input now, and ask him to try it on his own for a few weeks.
 
It's just to try to start dialogue really, if it were me I would want to know if he'd been told to seek Jim or Ted's input by a previous manager, for example, or if Jim/Ted had caught a big mistake and told him to run stuff past them in future. So it might not necessarily be a confidence thing by this point, more of a 'i was told to do it like this' thing.

At this point I would say that I thought they were making good decisions and didn't need any additional input now, and ask him to try it on his own for a few weeks.

Yeah, good first point, and I agree with the second. Autistic people can be very conscientious and poor at feigning the certainty of those who don't give much of a fuck and are playing the game.
 
Yeah, good first point, and I agree with the second. Autistic people can be very conscientious and poor at feigning the certainty of those who don't give much of a fuck and are playing the game.
With decision making, it's rare a job is life or death (working in medicine aside), so when I've had someone agonising over a decision and becoming essentially paralysed by it, I've reminded them of it. Plus most decisions can be undone or changed.

Some people think doing nothing can be a good decision. Occasionally, yes, but more often that not you have to decide something.
 
With decision making, it's rare a job is life or death (working in medicine aside), so when I've had someone agonising over a decision and becoming essentially paralysed by it, I've reminded them of it. Plus most decisions can be undone or changed.

Some people think doing nothing can be a good decision. Occasionally, yes, but more often that not you have to decide something.

I find in my job the best path is usually obvious, then sometimes there are several paths with an assortment of pros and cons.
To truly botch something in a painful and embarassing way usually requires management assistance.
 
Cloo if you're happy with him, just do like every other decent manager and manipulate his annual review, so that he passes with flying colours. In the vast majority of cases it's just 'tick box' bollocks anyway; nobody cares what it says, as long as it's done.
I have never actually done a full annual review in all the time I've been at work, not even jumping through the hoops, and it's never made a jot of difference. In the short time I've been a team lead I never completed one either, though that's really because they kept changing the system so it was never necessary. I spent most of the time saying "ok this will make no difference to pay or promotion, but if you set X as a goal maybe we could get some funding to get you training in X based on that".

Any promotions or pay rises have always been based on other factors, and at the most a review is used to justify some arbitrary decision coming from somewhere else.
 
I find in my job the best path is usually obvious, then sometimes there are several paths with an assortment of pros and cons.
To truly botch something in a painful and embarassing way usually requires management assistance.
Yeah, I'm fortunate in that I'm trusted to do the best thing for the company in my job and my manager is mostly hands off. So I don't have to run everything I decide past him.

Incidentally, I did reverse a decision I made last week, but that was because the basis for that decision has changed so rigidly sticking to it would not be in the company's best interests.
 
I have never actually done a full annual review in all the time I've been at work, not even jumping through the hoops, and it's never made a jot of difference. In the short time I've been a team lead I never completed one either, though that's really because they kept changing the system so it was never necessary. I spent most of the time saying "ok this will make no difference to pay or promotion, but if you set X as a goal maybe we could get some funding to get you training in X based on that".
I've done them from both sides. Neither is much fun, but I ask my direct report for feedback and he does give it, and honestly.
 
Can an employer ask though?
As best I can tell from case law, yes but tactfully, and usually part of pre employment stuff. Also, if an employee choose not to tell an employer, they aren't protected by disability discrimination laws, as an employer must be reasonably aware of said disability.

There was a case recently iirc where a police force assumed an operator was deaf and couldn't do her job anymore, even though all the medical evidence showed that she met the minimum hearing requirements they set.
 
I've done them from both sides. Neither is much fun, but I ask my direct report for feedback and he does give it, and honestly.
I've done _bits_ of them but they've never followed through to the end point. My own managers have quite blatantly said that they didn't make any difference since I was in my 20s. It made me so anxious before I properly appreciated that that I want to make sure everyone knows it.

I'm opposed to the idea of performance related pay anyway. If Dev 1 is not producing code at the same level as Dev 2, that means Dev 1 may need some extra support or training, or maybe they hate the work so we need to find something they like better, or maybe Dev 2 is doing too much work which could burn them out. And if there isn't anything wrong who cares? But then I suspect I was never destined for a management career with that sort of attitude.
 
I've done _bits_ of them but they've never followed through to the end point. My own managers have quite blatantly said that they didn't make any difference since I was in my 20s.

I'm opposed to the idea of performance related pay anyway. If Dev 1 is not producing code at the same level as Dev 2, that means Dev 1 may need some extra support or training, or maybe they hate the work so we need to find something they like better, or maybe Dev 2 is doing too much work which could burn them out. And if there isn't anything wrong who cares? But then I suspect I was never destined for a management career with that sort of attitude.
My current system is performance related but we're in the process of reviewing it. Even if I work really hard this until April, my manager doesn't like given large payrises (he told me during the last review).
 
We have a very strictly mandated form of assessment and 'scoring' system, and they're getting more 'high challenge' about everything. I could in theory just say everything is fine, but if other people are complaining about his behaviour I'm not sure I can reallt get away with that!

Had a case in point this afternoon where the colleague in question (let's call him H) emailed me saying one of the digital team guys (who was one of the people whose nose he'd put out of joint by being insistent on him doing something when the poor guy was under a lot of pressure on more urgent stuff) hadn't added something to a piece he'd uploaded, so I a told him he should ask for it to be added, though bearing in mind the pressure the team was under (they have been impossibly short staffed for months and are only just now getting the extra manpower). He emailed the digital guy and managed to give a very blunt answer to something (along the lines of 'Yes, I know I saw you did that'). Think I may have to go and have a word with digital guy (who like most of the team is pretty new) and let him know that it's nothing personal with H, he's just blunt like that and I will have a word with him to back off a bit. In a way it helps that every conversation with H is a bit awkward, so TBH having a slightly difficult discussion is probably easier with him then with someone who you worry might have a big reaction, which he's not likely to.
 
My current system is performance related but we're in the process of reviewing it. Even if I work really hard this until April, my manager doesn't like given large payrises (he told me during the last review).
I can say that I've literally never known anyone get a performance related pay rise. They may get promoted, which can mean a pay rise, but that will be because a space needs filling and their manager picked them for whatever reason - usually they've been there the longest. There are annual standard pay rises but they're not related to performance.

It's a running... well not even a joke, just an observation, that the only way to get a pay rise in software is to quit and get another job. And then we get all the sad talk about how millennials don't stick in jobs these days. (Used to how Gen X didn't.)
 
Have you spoken to him about these issues? Come up with a clear plan of expectations and how he can meet these / what you will do to support that learning?

You need to be open and honest with him about this stuff. How can someone change if they don’t know something is wrong? Maybe he is autistic, maybe he isn’t but it’s irrelevant at this stage until you’ve had some sort of discussion and plan and seen what happens IMO.

You can’t fail his annual review if you’ve not raised these issues and tried to support around it. That seems grossly unfair.

I’m also unclear why you are line managing someone without having done any further training around it. Why hasn’t that been prioritised?
 
We have a very strictly mandated form of assessment and 'scoring' system, and they're getting more 'high challenge' about everything. I could in theory just say everything is fine, but if other people are complaining about his behaviour I'm not sure I can reallt get away with that!

Had a case in point this afternoon where the colleague in question (let's call him H) emailed me saying one of the digital team guys (who was one of the people whose nose he'd put out of joint by being insistent on him doing something when the poor guy was under a lot of pressure on more urgent stuff) hadn't added something to a piece he'd uploaded, so I a told him he should ask for it to be added, though bearing in mind the pressure the team was under (they have been impossibly short staffed for months and are only just now getting the extra manpower). He emailed the digital guy and managed to give a very blunt answer to something (along the lines of 'Yes, I know I saw you did that'). Think I may have to go and have a word with digital guy (who like most of the team is pretty new) and let him know that it's nothing personal with H, he's just blunt like that and I will have a word with him to back off a bit. In a way it helps that every conversation with H is a bit awkward, so TBH having a slightly difficult discussion is probably easier with him then with someone who you worry might have a big reaction, which he's not likely to.
Seriously, your company needs a proper formal task management system and methodology if emails like that are going back and forward, and if it exists, people need to learn how to use it and also that they _must_ use it. They are supposed to mitigate against problems in these situations and while they might not always they are a lot better than emails.
 
Have you spoken to him about these issues? Come up with a clear plan of expectations and how he can meet these / what you will do to support that learning?

You need to be open and honest with him about this stuff. How can someone change if they don’t know something is wrong? Maybe he is autistic, maybe he isn’t but it’s irrelevant at this stage until you’ve had some sort of discussion and plan and seen what happens IMO.

You can’t fail his annual review if you’ve not raised these issues and tried to support around it. That seems grossly unfair.

I’m also unclear why you are line managing someone without having done any further training around it. Why hasn’t that been prioritised?
Yes, this. An annual review shouldn't be used to raise surprise issues, nor as a stick to beat people with (I had a line manager tell me my performance was shit, when I had been seriously ill, all of which was documented with HR.). It can look at points of improvement though, which this might be.
 
See, I really don't like it when people make excuses for others like 'oh he's a bit blunt'. Has he been asked not to be, especially by email?

There's ways to communicate that don't wind people up all the time.
 
Cloo I would definitely want to see the emails he's sending if the digital team are that not happy. You can said you have been made aware of some issues and you're looking into them, and that you'd appreciate their patience while you do so.
 
I should add we are in the team allfond of H, in all his awkwardness - he has an entertainingly droll sense of humour and can give very helpful feedback and useful suggestions in improving stuff too.

Even I know enough about management to know that one doesn't spring criticisms of someone at annual review, so no one's planning on doing that. I do need to check what his previous manager (my current) has said to him in the past

FridgeMagnet - they are starting to introduce a formal task management system with the digital team. Basically the entire team left by mid this year; some by coincidence, some because of being pissed off by poor handling of a consultation exercise re: digital - and they'd all been there less than two years. One new guy has basically been holding the fort for a while, but they've finally got a senior manager in for the team (they took some time to do this because they didn't see anyone who they felt was good enough, which under the circumstances seems wise and they have someone with a lot of experienced) and another 3 people, but they're all getting up to speed.
 
Can an employer ask though?
you can ask whether there are any adjustments that are needed or whether there is anything they think you need to know. You can't say anything that is potentially discriminatory 'you seem a bit spectrummy' 'are yuo sure you're well enough to do this job, in your condition' etc- they may have disclosed to HR but not you, they may not want to disclose, you may be totally wrong on what is going on with them
 
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Cloo- talk to him abbout behaviours and support you can provide to meet behavioural expectations. Never ever suggest someone is NNT etc- its horrible for them, as well as potentially discriminatory.

Your situation today- I obviously wasn't there but his reaction could be perfectly reasonable. He needed x, team y were supposed to deliver it, they hadn't, he chased. In many work environments that's just how things work. In others team y have contractual terms they hide behind, in still others you are expected to do a lot of stroking to get anything, in still others the aim is everyone having a nice time and noone really measures what gets done. He could just not be flexing his stlye appropriately for your environment, he could be doing something that has worked in the past etc. Or he could be unhappy, stressed, distracted, bored, out of his depth, have any one of two dozen mental or neural things going on. Most of which you shouldn't go near as you are a line manager not a shrink.

The way to navigate it (without someone ending up in court/sobbing in the loos) is to make expectations clear- whether delivery, behaviour, documentation, timing etc; offer support to meet those expectations; ask thether there is anything else they need or would like to discuss with you, and then move on. If there is a performance metric that says 'don't upset the sensitive digital team' then lay out that expectation and take it from there: if his metric is deliver x and the digital team are getting between him and the metric, and you have tasked him on delivering x...

If it is an unspoken expectation- there is nothing in the performance framework about soft skills, or that is directly applicable,- have a coaching conversation about unspoken expectations and how he could meet them. But you can defend that in any calibration meeting- you can't score people on invisible metrics.
 
Cloo if you're happy with him, just do like every other decent manager and manipulate his annual review, so that he passes with flying colours. In the vast majority of cases it's just 'tick box' bollocks anyway; nobody cares what it says, as long as it's done.

Disagree. This is not helping the person concerned and may IN fact by doing them a disservice.
It would appear from the OP that this person is having an adverse effect on their immediate team and now others as well.
Cloo Is clearly treading on egg shells in having to manage this person and their team.
To assist them to do their job properly it might be necessary to make adjustments or concessions. I would also consider speaking to HR. Before going further.
 
See, I really don't like it when people make excuses for others like 'oh he's a bit blunt'. Has he been asked not to be, especially by email?

There's ways to communicate that don't wind people up all the time.
there are. But there are also tendencies in organisations to pile on colleagues who don't quite fit including confirmation bias around behaviours, lots of people are rubbish about communicating prioritisation, people who are not delivering (or feel they are not delivering) get defensive and can claim others are being unfairly demanding.... there are all sorts of things that might be going on. And these things are never EVER one way- there are two people in any communication
 
I should add we are in the team allfond of H, in all his awkwardness - he has an entertainingly droll sense of humour and can give very helpful feedback and useful suggestions in improving stuff too.

Even I know enough about management to know that one doesn't spring criticisms of someone at annual review, so no one's planning on doing that. I do need to check what his previous manager (my current) has said to him in the past

FridgeMagnet - they are starting to introduce a formal task management system with the digital team. Basically the entire team left by mid this year; some by coincidence, some because of being pissed off by poor handling of a consultation exercise re: digital - and they'd all been there less than two years. One new guy has basically been holding the fort for a while, but they've finally got a senior manager in for the team (they took some time to do this because they didn't see anyone who they felt was good enough, which under the circumstances seems wise and they have someone with a lot of experienced) and another 3 people, but they're all getting up to speed.
You may find that some of these issues magically melt away once there's an actual structure involved. I've worked with perfectly nice people who've been terrible cuntbags when dealing with things ad hoc. It's not their job to know when people they're dealing with are overworked (how can they?) it's a systemic issue. One of the main points of a process is to reassure people that what they want is on the list and give them an idea of when it is likely to be done.

Even without a formal process it's really the job of the engineering manager to deal with this stuff. Stakeholders emailing devs directly is an absolute no no.
 
Disagree. This is not helping the person concerned and may IN fact by doing them a disservice.
It would appear from the OP that this person is having an adverse effect on their immediate team and now others as well.
Cloo Is clearly treading on egg shells in having to manage this person and their team.
To assist them to do their job properly it might be necessary to make adjustments or concessions. I would also consider speaking to HR. Before going further.

I'm not suggesting she doesn't help him do these things better, but that she just signs off the appraisal, as it won't help anyone for him to get grief.
 
The difficulty with not mentioning an issue in an appraisal is that if the employee’s performance gets worse and they need to go on a performance management process then there’s no audit trail to show that it was raised earlier.
 
The difficulty with not mentioning an issue in an appraisal is that if the employee’s performance gets worse and they need to go on a performance management process then there’s no audit trail to show that it was raised earlier.
How is that bad? Does that not make it easier for them?
 
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I think you will be on dodgy ground mentioning someone has an issue in an appraisal. You can note their performance is lacking, falling short or suffering. Is there anything affecting your performance, is there any help or adjustments we can make or is there anything we should know...
 
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