Starbucks coming to Brixton

[Johnny Canuck3]

Howwwwwwwwwwwwwlllllllllllllllllllllllllll

I do like their iced green tea though, but I'd rather not have a Starfucks in Brixton thank you very much

I honestly and really, don't understand that attitude. You even like one of their drinks.

 

[paolo]

One thing starbucks does, is market research. That means they're pretty sure already that they're going to make money there.

So in spite of all the whinging, it seems that a healthy percentage of the population likes starbucks.

But you do accept that the scepticism isn't a "Brixton Crustie" thing, yes?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

But you do accept that the scepticism isn't a "Brixton Crustie" thing, yes?

Of course. That was a windup comment aimed at teuchter for his 'troller' comment amongst a few others.

 

[teuchter]

One thing starbucks does, is market research. That means they're pretty sure already that they're going to make money there.

Hence my comment about it being as much symptom as cause.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

One thing about starbucks. I drink soy lattes. The starbucks down the street uses a better brand of soy than the independent place, but I regulary go to the independent, even though it tastes a little better at starbucks.

You see, this is the thing you don't understand. I hate starbucks too. I just don't believe in trying to force my choices and beliefs onto others who might disagree with me and who like starbucks.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Hence my comment about it being as much symptom as cause.

But if the market demographic is already in place, then the war is already lost.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's not so much that I hate starbucks, as I hate the people who go there.

No, that isn't right either; it's too negative.

I hate the stupid sheeplike mentality that makes people drink crappy coffee that tastes burnt, because that's what everyone else does. The kind of people who won't try the good italian coffee, because they're too unimaginative and doctrinaire to stray that far from the herd.

But having said that, I don't hate starbucks for exploiting that weakness. They're just doing what business does.

 

[paolo]

I just don't believe in trying to force my choices and beliefs onto others who might disagree with me and who like starbucks.

Noone on this thread is forcing anything?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Noone on this thread is forcing anything?

Only because you lack sufficient power.

 

[teuchter]

It's not so much that I hate starbucks, as I hate the people who go there.

No, that isn't right either; it's too negative.

I hate the stupid sheeplike mentality that makes people drink crappy coffee that tastes burnt, because that's what everyone else does. The kind of people who won't try the good italian coffee, because they're too unimaginative and doctrinaire to stray that far from the herd.

So essentially you are broadly in line with the sentiments that lead to certain people in Brixton being unhappy to see the arrival of Starbucks but you are expressing your thoughts which are that these certain people of Brixton shouldn't be expressing their thoughts, because you don't like people expressing their thoughts.

It's a bit of a muddle, you have to admit.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

So essentially you are broadly in line with the sentiments that lead to certain people in Brixton being unhappy to see the arrival of Starbucks but you are expressing your thoughts which are that these certain people of Brixton shouldn't be expressing their thoughts, because you don't like people expressing their thoughts..

No. It's a discussion forum. You express your thoughts, I express mine.

And if your sentiments are the same as mine, it's something about the customers that bothers you. Banning a starbucks from the high street won't change that aspect of human nature that takes them in there in the first place.

And I might not like whatever it is that makes them go there, but I won't stand in the way of their right to do it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I read what I write this afternoon, and I realize I'm as susceptible to acting the pompous ass as the next person.

I think starbucks tastes burnt, but I'm ignoring the possibility that some people actually like the taste of the coffee, and seek it out.

There will always be change, and there will always be those who resist it. Sometimes resistance is right, sometimes it's futile, and sometimes it's merely reactionary.

 

[ovaltina]

I went to the Starbucks on the highway leading out of Fresno, California, once. Exactly the same as in Southampton or Sheffield or Vauxhall - even the same non-invasive jazz pootling quietly on the stereo and expensive coffee in big cardboard cups. Bit like McDonalds in that every shop is the same.

The Brighton shop replaced a locally owned and operated book shop on St James's St, which is in the gay 'village'. It caused a lot of protest because Starbucks had been so cheeky opening without permission, and also because it was competing with local businesses that had been there since St James's St was a skanky hellhole.

When they moved into the road my bf was horrified and said it would lead to vile yuppie mums pushing three wheeler prams up and down the pavement, shouting into their blackberries, and forcing the gays to leap into the road to avoid being run over. He was right. It's like bloody Hampstead now.

*eta - local shops are still doing well, but that's probably because nobody wants to be seen going to starbucks.

 

[ChrisSouth]

I'm scratching my head here. It's ok to have HMV but not Starbuck's? Surely both high street chains?

 

[tarannau]

To be fair HMV doesn't have anywhere near the aggressive track record of Starbuck's, nor their anti competitive antics. Wilful breaches of planning, loss leaders to kill off local independents and clustering of outlets to cannibalise local spend aren't exactly HMV's style - they're more trying to tread water than be aggressive in recent years,

 

[editor]

I'm scratching my head here. It's ok to have HMV but not Starbuck's? Surely both high street chains?

I don't recall HMV indulging in market saturation tactics to force local indie record stores out of business, using dubious anti-competitive tactics.

But your comparison is flawed anyway: how many HMV's can you see on the High Streets of Britain?

 

[ChrisSouth]

I don't recall HMV indulging in market saturation tactics to force local indie record stores out of business, using dubious anti-competitive tactics.

But your comparison is flawed anyway: how many HMV's can you see on the High Streets of Britain?

My error, this should read H & M. But the point is the same. And I wouldn't dig too deeply in to Henne's ethical business stance.

 

[tarannau]

What point is the same? A large-site fashion retailer is hardly equivalent to Starbucks and its record of anti-competitive behaviour from what I can see.

 

[editor]

My error, this should read H & M. But the point is the same. And I wouldn't dig too deeply in to Henne's ethical business stance.

Well, show us some examples of the company indulging in dodgy anti-competitive practices, breaking the planning laws and using their corporate muscle to force out independents and we can have the argument.

 

[ChrisSouth]

What point is the same? A large-site fashion retailer is hardly equivalent to Starbucks and its record of anti-competitive behaviour from what I can see.

What's the beef with Starbucks exactly?

Putting other companies out of business?

Or planning infringements (check Starbucks and H and M), (the sourcing of cheap clothes from underpaid and exploited workforce (check H and M), the reluctance to accept a unionised workforce (check H and M and Starbucks - both forced so to do), destroying their rubbish so that the homeless can utilise unwanted trading good (check Starbucks and H & M).

So the point is that there's been universal praise for the arrival of H & M in Brixton, but hatred of Starbucks.

 

[ChrisSouth]

Well, show us some examples of the company indulging in dodgy anti-competitive practices, breaking the planning laws and using their corporate muscle to force out independents and we can have the argument.

For sure. Try Google. I find it a useful search tool.

 

[editor]

What's the beef with Starbucks exactly?

Here's some pointers. There's lots more to be found.

What's wrong with Starbucks?

Chris Carris, owner of the Willow Glen Coffee Roasting Company in Willow Glen, said he lost 40 percent of his business when Starbucks moved in across the street. "They're like a strip mining operation," he said. "My business is slow. I'm still making money, but it always could be better."
Carris said that deep corporate pockets make it impossible for him to compete with Starbucks head-to-head. "They use predatory marketing techniques," he said. "You won't beat them on advertising. You won't beat them on placement. They can support and subsidize a store that can't do well. Now they've got three stores within a three-mile radius."

Predatory Behavior

Dollars spent at Starbucks are not spent at a local business. Money given to such places does not stay in the local economy - profits go back to the corporate office. Does this sound like an attractive future for this community?

Predatory behavior in common with that of franchise corporations such as Starbucks, which move into a market built by local people, forcing a split in the revenue and the eventual collapse of the local business that cannot afford to share the market with the interloper's deep pockets.

For the independent cafe, Starbucks spells doom...

Starbucks openings from coast to coast have sometimes signaled the death knell for the mom-and-pop shop. In cities as diverse as Milwaikee, New Orleans and Portland, Ore., a beloved gourmet coffee house disappeared soon after a Starbucks moved in close by.
And when Starbucks eyed Saratoga Springs, N.Y., it offered to buy Madeline's Espresso Bar. After the two sides couldn't agree on a price, Starbucks opened across the street.

A corporation bent on becoming a global powerhouse

Now, Starbucks is waking up to the grande challenges faced by any corporation bent on becoming a global powerhouse. The stores may be oases of tranquility, but management's expansion tactics are something else. Take what critics call its "predatory real estate" strategy--paying more than market-rate rents to keep competitors out of a location.

http://www.vizettes.com/perspectives/tc/korporate/starfux/starvebucks.htm

 

[Badgers]

If they start selling mixed grills we are all fucked

 

[ChrisSouth]

Here's some pointers. There's lots more to be found.







I think if you swop Starbucks for H & M, the story won't read that differently.

I global corporation rolling out their business across the world? There's a new one to me.

 

[teuchter]

So the point is that there's been universal praise for the arrival of H & M

Has there?

I'm not especially pleased about its arrival.

 

[tarannau]

Remarkably I agree with Teuchter. I can't say I've said a word about H&M's arrival tbh, let alone greeted them with 'universal approval.'

I'm unsure to what point ChrisS is trying to argue here. There's seems little relevance, imo, between comparing a coffee shop and a whopping clothing store, particularly given the lack of an independent sector competing with H&M around here. Nor does H&M really have the same track record of targeting and deliberately cannibalising local competitors. Yes, I have reservations about some of H&M's sourcing policies, but the same would be true of most clothing brands, independents included, outside of the niche or more expensive sectors. Reservations about Starbucks go deeper than that - if their anticompetitive record wasn't enought, the fuckers signed up Paul Dadrock McCartney for their shitty exclusive bland-o-label for example

 

[ajdown]

Has there?

I'm not especially pleased about its arrival.

They don't do anything I like or in my size therefore its presence is as irrelevant to me as Starbucks, as I don't take drugs.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

OMG

 

[teuchter]

They don't do anything I like or in my size therefore its presence is as irrelevant to me as Starbucks, as I don't take drugs.

Thanks for sharing this interesting information.

 

[gabi]

I use the Opus coffe branch on brighton terrace. theyv'e got a captive market there being in a design agency compound so hopefully this won't affect their trade.

federation coffee's the best in brix by a stretch tho just a lil outta the way.

starbucks will be useful as a backup tho.