Squatting 70s style, BBC4 8 Feb

[wiskey]

Fair point Wiskey but better have some input then none at all i guess.

is it better to have a programme with only a few peoples views put across, or not to have a prgramme and let everyone say what they want?

(i dunno the answer to that btw)

 

[zenie]

is it better to have a programme with only a few peoples views put across, or not to have a prgramme and let everyone say what they want?

(i dunno the answer to that btw)

IMO It's better to have a programme that at least has some input by ex-residents who are happy to oblige then a programme with no input at all.

I didnt think they said anything damming did they?

 

[TeeJay]

hmm. could try email. i'll check the torrents tomrrow and see if i can d/load it.

What about using Soulseek?

www.usendit.com <--- this link isn't working for me

 

[TeeJay]

hmm. could try email. i'll check the torrents tomrrow and see if i can d/load it.

Well I could try if I actually had your email! PM me?

 

[wiskey]

I didnt think they said anything damming did they?

nope but in 20 yearsd when someone wants to remember its that programme they will use, and therefore that will become the defined set of events.

 

[zenie]

nope but in 20 yearsd when someone wants to remember its that programme they will use, and therefore that will become the defined set of events.

True guess its better to have something in history books then nothing

*shrugs*

There's been other programmes about it anyway hasn't there?

 

[zenie]

What about using Soulseek?

www.usendit.com <--- this link isn't working for me

Sorry

www.yousendit.com

 

[wiskey]

True guess its better to have something in history books then nothing

*shrugs*

There's been other programmes about it anyway hasn't there?

there's some interesting stuff on the web

 

[William of Walworth]

Very interesting, but I'll take the word of newbie and others for it that it was really selective in what it talked about and what it emphasised ... and what it left out?

Ground Elder, we've put it onto DVD for you -- PM Stig to sort out us posting it to you.

'Better sight without glasses' got a fleeting mention, my mum had a copy round our house. I read a chapter when I was about 9, and even then I was very dubious, would probably have used the word 'cobblers' if I'd known it then ...

As newbie said, way too much emphasis on the hippy stuff. The history on http://squatter.org.uk (dating from 1980 mind!) is very different in tone and emphasis.


(Missed the shorter programme on St Agnes, has anyone recorded it?)

 

[TeeJay]

nope but in 20 yearsd when someone wants to remember its that programme they will use, and therefore that will become the defined set of events.

The BBC Four website links to these sites (their descriptions in brackets):

Victory Villa (Feature about the South London squatting campaign)
stagnesplace.net (Latest news and history of London's oldest squat)
Pete Cooper website (Official site of a Villa Roader)
Wikipedia: International Marxist Group (Details on the political party)
Interview with Jenny James (1977 interview with the founder of the primal scream commune on Villa Rd)

 

[zenie]

(Missed the shorter programme on St Agnes, has anyone recorded it?)

No I didnt William they were on after the news 3 minutes each day last part is tomorrow you might be able to download them from somewhere though

 

[Sir Belchalot]

BTW if anyone missed the Villa Rd doc, it's repeated at 2.10 a.m.

 

[oryx]

I thought that within the context of the series - which I'm taking to be the idealistic Left in the '70s - it was an interesting programme.

I loved the old footage of the street & surrounding area. I thought (as others have said) there was perhaps too much emphasis on the far-left politics and the deeply alternative lifestyles - there was WAY too much on the primal scream brigade & the guy who lived in a tent, and not enough on the context of squatting at the time.

 

[newbie]

As newbie said, way too much emphasis on the hippy stuff.

If you put it like that I'm suddenly not so sure, I rather like hippies

The theme of individuals crossing the street ( IMG <--> screamers) to illustrate the times is hardly a representative picture of the many hundreds of people who lived in the street or the thousands in other nearby squatted streets. But there is a sense in which the older political traditions (the running joke of 'Marxist reading groups') was challenged by newer personal liberation politics- feminism, gays, therapists, anti-materialists and so on (lifestylism in todays terms). I guess that's where the series is going.

 

[William of Walworth]

BTW if anyone missed the Villa Rd doc, it's repeated at 2.10 a.m.

There you go Blagsta!!

Or do you not have freeeview?

We are at the Battersea Beer Fest tonight so I doubt we'll be in any fit state to record it for you by the time we get back, but someone else might be able to ...

 

[William of Walworth]

The theme of individuals crossing the street ( IMG <--> screamers) to illustrate the times is hardly a representative picture of the many hundreds of people who lived in the street or the thousands in other nearby squatted streets. But there is a sense in which the older political traditions (the running joke of 'Marxist reading groups') was challenged by newer personal liberation politics- feminism, gays, therapists, anti-materialists and so on (lifestylism in todays terms). I guess that's where the series is going.

It all seems quite remote from now!!!

I missed some but not all this sort of thing -- the London heydey of Marxists, mass squats, rainbow tribes of any and every variety of far left and alternative subcultural activity was at its peak before my arrival in London in 1981. Plenty still remained of those things even by the early/mid 80s, but even in 5 years things can change a lot ... and as for 25 or 30 ...

I feel nowadays that there are DEFINITELY far, far fewer squatters, and fewer alternative subcultural types in London than there were in the 70s and 80s.. Loads to explain that, but one huge factor is surely how immensely more pricey (particularly in housing terms) London has become.

Which you'd think would continue to fuel a healthy squatting scene, but councils have long ago stopped their grand plan public housing redevelopment** -- almost nothing left of the compulsory purchase/subsequent blight of property that would precede the big schemes. Ther section in Joe Strummer's biography where the Elgin Avenue/Maida Hill mass squats (in the case of those areas, blighted by GLC grand housing plans at that time) of the early/mid 70s were discussed, is VERY interesting, but such would never happen now.

**No doubt someone will mention Heygate and Aylesbury, the current grand plans in my area of Southwark, but you can bet that security will be very tight and squatting opportunities kept severely limited when those schemes get going

Plus private property owners have goldmines on their hands and most will want to redevelop or sell them as quick as possible rather than let them stand empty for years.

Exceptions to that no doubt, but there must be much more limited squatting opportunities than there once were.

No doubt others with more direct knowledge/experience can suggest other factors and reasons or contradict some of the above ...

 

[William of Walworth]

<double post cos I keep mixing up my Edit and Quote buttons! at self >

 

[William of Walworth]

The BBC Four website links to these sites (their descriptions in brackets):

Victory Villa (Feature about the South London squatting campaign)
stagnesplace.net (Latest news and history of London's oldest squat)
Pete Cooper website (Official site of a Villa Roader)
Wikipedia: International Marxist Group (Details on the political party)
Interview with Jenny James (1977 interview with the founder of the primal scream commune on Villa Rd)

Peter Cooper's website contains almost no mention of squatting beyond in passing.

It's all about his career as a traditional folk fiddler, good on him, but not much help in Villa Road history terms.

The squat.freeserve.co.uk history is excellent.

That is the Advisory Service for Squatters website. In fact their proper website is at http://www.squatter.org.uk but they still seem to be using the old domain as well. The ASS got hold of a copy of the now long out of print Squatting : the real story (London : Bay Leaf Books, 1980)** and scanned most chapters of it onto the website.

Great stuff, but a bit too near the original time to be definititive as a history, and published too early to include the last big outbreaks of activity in Southwark (1980s).

**If anyone has a copy of this work, I will pay GOOD MONEY to get hold of it ...

 

[zenie]

I feel nowadays that there are DEFINITELY far, far fewer squatters, and fewer alternative subcultural types in London than there were in the 70s and 80s.. Loads to explain that, but one huge factor is surely how immensely more pricey (particularly in housing terms) London has become.

As someone mentioned in a post only a few days ago – there are more people then ever living in London now – in the 70’s and 80’s the population was much smaller so there were many many more empty properties right?

 

[William of Walworth]

As someone mentioned in a post only a few days ago – there are more people then ever living in London now – in the 70’s and 80’s the population was much smaller so there were many many more empty properties right?

Yes, thats got to be a big part of it as well ...

Nowadays there seem to be new (mostly private, not in way either 'affordable' or affordable) housing schemes/redevelopments being squeezed into the tiniest of spare corners and unlikelyiest of converted old buildings ...

 

[wiskey]

The squat.freeserve.co.uk history is excellent.

That is the Advisory Service for Squatters website. In fact their proper website is at http://www.squatter.org.uk but they still seem to be using the old domain as well. The ASS got hold of a copy of the now long out of print Squatting : the real story (London : Bay Leaf Books, 1980)** and scanned most chapters of it onto the website.

i think that was the one i was thinking of

 

[Blagsta]

There you go Blagsta!!

Or do you not have freeeview?

We are at the Battersea Beer Fest tonight so I doubt we'll be in any fit state to record it for you by the time we get back, but someone else might be able to ...

We have Freeview and I saw it. I wanted a copy for the missus 'cos she was at college and I haven't worked out how to tune the video recorder into the set-top box signal...

 

[TeeJay]

Sorry whiskey - that file is just too big for my email/ISP (and wasn't really getting anywhere on the sendit link either). Maybe we could use Soulseek if you still can't get it elsewhere?

Edit: also Blagsta...

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

just watched it m'self

it was all a bit... well pointless... it didn't really say anything and all the interviews added up to not a lot

...... though i am now deeply curious to where the composting toilet is....

 

[zenie]

Sorry whiskey - that file is just too big for my email/ISP (and wasn't really getting anywhere on the sendit link either). Maybe we could use Soulseek if you still can't get it elsewhere?

Edit: also Blagsta...

There's also that torrent just for TV programmes.

It might be worth an email to the beeb as i think they've opened it up now so you can get their programmes or am I mistaken?

 

[Blagsta]

Teejay

whats your soulseek user name?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Why did that guy still wanna live in a tent in a house though?

he always has been intrested in construction and structures and for him building a place to live is a very natural idea.. he just lives in the house while he builds the structures as the hut got pulled down by some naibours a while back (it was built partly across two gardens)

 

[zenie]

he always has been intrested in construction and structures and for him building a place to live is a very natural idea.. he just lives in the house while he builds the structures as the hut got pulled down by some naibours a while back (it was built partly across two gardens)

So is gonna live in it permanentley or just while he builds himself somewhere?

I need a house who lives in the rest?

Does he want a maid

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

he lives insode the house while he build various stuff as far as i know he has no plans to move. and he only lives in part of the house various other poele live thier too

as for maidage .... composting toilets seam to do the job

 

[William of Walworth]

You're talking about that Pym feller I take it, there was a passing reference in the programme about him STILL being a squatter, can that really be true after all these years? Surely he'd have gained possession after 12 years??