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Spurs 2023/24

ska invita said:
its not his fault, theres not the quality up front (to beat fulham)
Fifth best
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The day it all went wrong.

The league table doesn't lie. 3 teams steamroller pretty much everyone; Villa and Spurs are every bit as good on their day but have the capacity to lose random games like Wolves at home or Fulham away; Man Utd aren't quite as good but still win their fair share just because the players are better than in the teams below them, and after that it's all a bit irrelevant.

Got a sneaky feeling West Ham will do us a favour vs Villa.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
The day it all went wrong.

The league table doesn't lie. 3 teams steamroller pretty much everyone; Villa and Spurs are every bit as good on their day but have the capacity to lose random games like Wolves at home or Fulham away; Man Utd aren't quite as good but still win their fair share just because the players are better than in the teams below them, and after that it's all a bit irrelevant.

Got a sneaky feeling West Ham will do us a favour vs Villa.
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West Ham never do us favours.
 
The planned hotel at NWHL has just been given planning permission. Spoils the look of the stadium rather, but should keep the cash flowing in. Levy’s pushing for the number of non-football events (does that include NFL?) to go up to 32 from 16, as well.

1711524857779.png
 
FFP rules are being updated to spending as a %age of turnover - the business side of our club know exactly what they're doing.

Translate that onto the pitch please!!!

Speaking of which - league games back on the menu this weekend. Saturday 3pm (is it just me or does that feel rare?), Luton at home. Clean bill of health after the internationals, except for the 3 long term fringe players (Sessegnon, Forster, Solomon); van de Ven should be available. Alfie Doughty auditioning for a Spurs shirt, he's had a quietly impressive season on the left and to my mind could easily make the step up and play our creative fullback role (in a way that Davies and Emerson can't).

Villa at home vs Wolves, Man Utd away at Brentford. Favours would be most gratefully received, feels like just a couple of decent results could put Man Utd to bed but they're still there at the minute - the 10 pints of Guinness turd that won't flush.
 
stavros said:
Quins and Sarries fucked up your pitch nicely last Saturday.
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The pitch would have been rolled away safely while the egg-chasers scraped their knees on the astroturf underneath. It’s the main USP of the stadium, cheese rooms aside.
 
Silas Loom said:
The pitch would have been rolled away safely while the egg-chasers scraped their knees on the astroturf underneath. It’s the main USP of the stadium, cheese rooms aside.
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Nope it was on the grass from what I was told, I took these photos yesterday.
The can't move the grass pitch while the F1 cart circuit is out, as it occupies the same space in the carpark.
 

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Well, the pitch wasn’t the problem. Things looked much better with Bentancur* and without Maddison. Bit unlucky with Son hitting two posts and then the hawkeye conundrum.

We can’t play like that against proper teams and expect to win on own goals and deflections though.

*Honourable mentions for Johnson and GLC. And I suppose to Ange, for addressing what was not working.
 
When Son hits both posts with the same shot, and goalline tech says 2mm short on another, you figure it's not going to be our day.

Good character shown, 3 points done.

Come on Wolves & Brentford!
 
Goodness, West Ham this evening. Hadn’t expected that. I hope it’s not as much of a surprise to the team.

V de V back, and all’s right with the world. Johnson and Bentancur starting, as well.
 
Silas Loom said:
Goodness, West Ham this evening. Hadn’t expected that. I hope it’s not as much of a surprise to the team.

V de V back, and all’s right with the world. Johnson and Bentacur starting, as well.
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Porro, vdV and Udogie in the back 4 - fastest defence in living memory. Coupled with Johnson, Son, Werner - fastest attack in living memory.

And for all that pace, it's a big game for James Maddison. West Ham will play in the counter, defence sitting deep and letting us have possession in front of them. Going to need something a bit smart to break them down, so here's hoping our creator in chief is on form.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
Porro, vdV and Udogie in the back 4 - fastest defence in living memory. Coupled with Johnson, Son, Werner - fastest attack in living memory.

And for all that pace, it's a big game for James Maddison. West Ham will play in the counter, defence sitting deep and letting us have possession in front of them. Going to need something a bit smart to break them down, so here's hoping our creator in chief is on form.
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He has to return to form sooner or later, so why not tonight?

Note that the Bingo Club’s last line of defence is Fabianski today. The poor old chap should be taking it easy in the Saudi league or MLS by now.
 
Hhmmm. Always a very difficult fixture this, home and away.

Wonder how our ‘speedsters’ will cope with West Ham’s low block?

I’m expecting a fraught evening
 
Set piece defending was woeful. No one even noticed Zouma, much less marked him!

The overall performance = not that bad but I have to say though that a lack of a cutting edge is glaringly obvious. West Ham were defending with 20-odd men back but we can’t find a player to shoot on target. On the occasions where we do beat a man and get a cross in (Johnson our best again tonight at this), the others are flat footed and lack the killer instinct (Son & Werner I’m looking at you).

Bitterly disappointed not to beat them when all they were playing for was set pieces.

the subs were weird. Judging by Maddison’s expression he didn’t appear injured, just confused.
 
Maddison shouldn't look confused. He wasn't bad, but he wasn't great; that's the exact kind of game where we need him to be playing with a swagger, constantly putting the likes of Johnson and Werner one on one with their fullbacks. Bringing on Deki to play in the middle was well worth a try.

Man City fans for tomorrow; beat Villa at the Etihad and we're still mathematically in pole position for 4th. Weirdly, Chelsea fans on Thursday - beat Man Utd to keep them at arm's length.

Next up for us - a mildly resurgent Nottingham Forest, at the new WHL. I'd take a performance that's more of the same, just a bit smarter.
 
If I were a manager tasked with making the ultimate squad, money no object, my first centre back port of call would be Mickey van de Ven. The last batch of genuinely world class centre backs (the likes of Ramos, Pique, van Dijk, Dias, Rudiger) are all getting on in years or already retired; there's a vacancy for the next big thing. It pains me to say an Arsenal player too, but I reckon Saliba and vdV would get the nod for me.

Dragusin is a Romero type, a front foot head everything and tackle everything defender. There are 2 very good centre backs potentially available for free in the summer and we've been linked with both - Tosin Adaribayo from Fulham and Lloyd Kelly from Bournemouth; has to be Kelly for me, left-sided and rapid, otherwise we'll have 3 stoppers and still only the one vdV who lets us play the way we do.

For next season, keep an eye on Lucas Bergvall; an 18yr old Swede who's already signed, currently on loan at Djuurgarden. The step up in level is obvious, but he looks a frighteningly good prospect - 8 goals and assists in his last 4 games as a midfielder, left footed and has the ball glued to his foot.
 
I wrote the below reply on a Spurs forum - the debate is whether we care about 4th/5th/6th whatever.,,

I’m a bit down in the dumps over last night and the last few months to be honest. Remember when we were cavaliering our way through games - win/lose/draw - with 4 FB’s and Skipp/PEH in midfield? We couldn’t wait unleash our injured/suspended/AFCON bound fully fit squad on the rest of the league? Since everyone is more or less back fit we’ve been decidedly underwhelming.

Until maybe Wolves at home I was relishing CL football again next year. My last European game was Milan away 22/23 (with a load of mates) and couldn’t wait for it all to begin again.

However, I (& we it appears) have had to take stock recently. Spurs have played what? 3 extra cup games all season and then just league games? I can’t understand the drop off, other than to say we aren’t as good as we thought we were or might’ve been.

I’m on the fence as to whether we (& Angeball) have been found out or whether it’s the start of something beautiful.

As someone raised on the expectation of Tottenham as a cup team though, the fallow ENIC years have been draining and wearisome. A reserve team away at Fulham for the LC and a limp home defeat in the FAC was a continuation of this.

I’d just like to see us win ‘something’, anything! Get the monkey off the back (which is now a King Kong sized White Elephant - apols for the mixed metaphor). If that’s Europa League, so be it. I don’t see us able to go anywhere in the CL soon. And for fucks sake play our strongest team in every cup competition…
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
If I were a manager tasked with making the ultimate squad, money no object, my first centre back port of call would be Mickey van de Ven. The last batch of genuinely world class centre backs (the likes of Ramos, Pique, van Dijk, Dias, Rudiger) are all getting on in years or already retired; there's a vacancy for the next big thing. It pains me to say an Arsenal player too, but I reckon Saliba and vdV would get the nod for me.

Dragusin is a Romero type, a front foot head everything and tackle everything defender. There are 2 very good centre backs potentially available for free in the summer and we've been linked with both - Tosin Adaribayo from Fulham and Lloyd Kelly from Bournemouth; has to be Kelly for me, left-sided and rapid, otherwise we'll have 3 stoppers and still only the one vdV who lets us play the way we do.

For next season, keep an eye on Lucas Bergvall; an 18yr old Swede who's already signed, currently on loan at Djuurgarden. The step up in level is obvious, but he looks a frighteningly good prospect - 8 goals and assists in his last 4 games as a midfielder, left footed and has the ball glued to his foot.
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And yeah, VDV is already world class. Wonder how long we can keep him…
 
I saw a rather cruel meme. Spurs are being investigated by HMRC as they have been claiming for silver polish. :)

All teams go through bad spells, my support of Hearts since 1968 makes supporting Spurs look like a bed of roses. :)
 
Cerberus said:
I wrote the below reply on a Spurs forum - the debate is whether we care about 4th/5th/6th whatever.,,

I’m a bit down in the dumps over last night and the last few months to be honest. Remember when we were cavaliering our way through games - win/lose/draw - with 4 FB’s and Skipp/PEH in midfield? We couldn’t wait unleash our injured/suspended/AFCON bound fully fit squad on the rest of the league? Since everyone is more or less back fit we’ve been decidedly underwhelming.

Until maybe Wolves at home I was relishing CL football again next year. My last European game was Milan away 22/23 (with a load of mates) and couldn’t wait for it all to begin again.

However, I (& we it appears) have had to take stock recently. Spurs have played what? 3 extra cup games all season and then just league games? I can’t understand the drop off, other than to say we aren’t as good as we thought we were or might’ve been.

I’m on the fence as to whether we (& Angeball) have been found out or whether it’s the start of something beautiful.

As someone raised on the expectation of Tottenham as a cup team though, the fallow ENIC years have been draining and wearisome. A reserve team away at Fulham for the LC and a limp home defeat in the FAC was a continuation of this.

I’d just like to see us win ‘something’, anything! Get the monkey off the back (which is now a King Kong sized White Elephant - apols for the mixed metaphor). If that’s Europa League, so be it. I don’t see us able to go anywhere in the CL soon. And for fucks sake play our strongest team in every cup competition…
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Really good post, I agree with a lot of it.

I think it's important to put "Angeball" into context of how we were playing under Conte et al before. We had a squad expensively assembled to play 3 at the back with a deep defensive line, a combative midfield, ceding possession and only really springing into life when winning possession on or around the halfway line. That's how the squad was set up to play.

Postecoglu is a fresh start; wipe the slate clean and go again. Much higher levels of possession, draw the opposition out and play around them. Wingers really high up the pitch and stretching as wide as possible, instead of inside forwards playing off a proper striker. Back 4 defending the halfway line (higher than the likes of Hojbjerg would have had as a starting position last season), fullbacks playing god knows where and everywhere.

It's very different. Vicario and vdV are new, as are Udogie and Porro (kind of). Bissouma and Sarr weren't really a factor. Maddison and Johnson are new, Richarlison was a bit on the fringes. The only real constants from the Conte era are Romero and Son, and to a lesser extent Kulusevski and Bentancur.

Yet the squad still has a number of Conte-type system players who don't really fit the Angeball philosophy. Davies and Emerson, cult heroes for the way they held things together during the Afcon/injury/suspension crisis, but really they're stay-at-home fullbacks not part-time attacking midfielders or centre backs. Skipp and Hojbjerg, tacklers not players comfortable in taking possession under pressure and manufacturing a passing move around a high press. Lo Celso, a wonderful player but best as a midfielder leading a counter with space to play into.

In terms of how we play, I'd say we have about 14 who really fit. First 11 plus Dragusin (for Romero, not vdV), whichever 1 of Biss, Sarr and Bentancur doesn't start, and whichever 1 of Son, Richy, Johnson and Kulu doesn't start.

We haven't got "long season" fatigue, but we do have fatigue in-games because of the relentless nature of our play. We're regularly using the full 5 subs, but realistically it's often to use fresh legs rather than to change things to make us better tactically. Fluctuations in fitness and form are inevitable (Maddison, Bissouma and Kulusevski are current cases in point) and we haven't had the optimal options in place to take people out of the firing line.

I'm still in the hugely positive camp, despite the ups and downs. Aside from the Chelsea game (where injuries and 2 sendings off made that somewhat unique), the recent Fulham game was the only one I can think of which has gone spectacularly wrong from start to finish; if the squad was say 18 Ange players instead of 14, I can think of at least 3 defeats which could easily have gone differently (Wolves away, Villa and West Ham home - all 1 up to lose 2-1).

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the squad can be added to realistically. Swap Davies and Royal out, for Alfie Doughty (Luton) and Djed Spence, bring in Lloyd Kelly on a free - now up to 8 Ange-style 'defenders' and a net profit. Conor Gallagher in to make 4 for the deeper midfield 2, in place of Hojbjerg, Lo Celso and/or Skipp for a relatively small net spend, let Bergvall and/or Jamie Donley have a part to play further forward. Another forward (dunno who, someone like Solanke or the Mexican fella banging goals in for fun at Feyenoord) plus the returning Solomon would give more options including using Kulusevski as one of Maddison's understudies.

I'm on long-term sick leave, does it show that I've had far too much time to think about this 🙄
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
Really good post, I agree with a lot of it.

I think it's important to put "Angeball" into context of how we were playing under Conte et al before. We had a squad expensively assembled to play 3 at the back with a deep defensive line, a combative midfield, ceding possession and only really springing into life when winning possession on or around the halfway line. That's how the squad was set up to play.

Postecoglu is a fresh start; wipe the slate clean and go again. Much higher levels of possession, draw the opposition out and play around them. Wingers really high up the pitch and stretching as wide as possible, instead of inside forwards playing off a proper striker. Back 4 defending the halfway line (higher than the likes of Hojbjerg would have had as a starting position last season), fullbacks playing god knows where and everywhere.

It's very different. Vicario and vdV are new, as are Udogie and Porro (kind of). Bissouma and Sarr weren't really a factor. Maddison and Johnson are new, Richarlison was a bit on the fringes. The only real constants from the Conte era are Romero and Son, and to a lesser extent Kulusevski and Bentancur.

Yet the squad still has a number of Conte-type system players who don't really fit the Angeball philosophy. Davies and Emerson, cult heroes for the way they held things together during the Afcon/injury/suspension crisis, but really they're stay-at-home fullbacks not part-time attacking midfielders or centre backs. Skipp and Hojbjerg, tacklers not players comfortable in taking possession under pressure and manufacturing a passing move around a high press. Lo Celso, a wonderful player but best as a midfielder leading a counter with space to play into.

In terms of how we play, I'd say we have about 14 who really fit. First 11 plus Dragusin (for Romero, not vdV), whichever 1 of Biss, Sarr and Bentancur doesn't start, and whichever 1 of Son, Richy, Johnson and Kulu doesn't start.

We haven't got "long season" fatigue, but we do have fatigue in-games because of the relentless nature of our play. We're regularly using the full 5 subs, but realistically it's often to use fresh legs rather than to change things to make us better tactically. Fluctuations in fitness and form are inevitable (Maddison, Bissouma and Kulusevski are current cases in point) and we haven't had the optimal options in place to take people out of the firing line.

I'm still in the hugely positive camp, despite the ups and downs. Aside from the Chelsea game (where injuries and 2 sendings off made that somewhat unique), the recent Fulham game was the only one I can think of which has gone spectacularly wrong from start to finish; if the squad was say 18 Ange players instead of 14, I can think of at least 3 defeats which could easily have gone differently (Wolves away, Villa and West Ham home - all 1 up to lose 2-1).

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the squad can be added to realistically. Swap Davies and Royal out, for Alfie Doughty (Luton) and Djed Spence, bring in Lloyd Kelly on a free - now up to 8 Ange-style 'defenders' and a net profit. Conor Gallagher in to make 4 for the deeper midfield 2, in place of Hojbjerg, Lo Celso and/or Skipp for a relatively small net spend, let Bergvall and/or Jamie Donley have a part to play further forward. Another forward (dunno who, someone like Solanke or the Mexican fella banging goals in for fun at Feyenoord) plus the returning Solomon would give more options including using Kulusevski as one of Maddison's understudies.

I'm on long-term sick leave, does it show that I've had far too much time to think about this 🙄
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Good post Zapp. Your glass has always been fuller than mine, I’m rather envious.

Hope you aren’t suffering too much mate (aside from watching Spurs either throw away leads or give the oppo a goal head start)…
 
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