similarities (or not) of modern day gay pride and nationalism

[revol68]

tbh my experience of the "gay scene" in Belfast is that it being a rather small city, it hasn't been able to fragment into a so many sub scenes. What I have noticed is that many gay young people no longer go to gay bars, they just go to "straight bars" or club nights and in general alot of these bars are pretty gay friendly in a way they wouldn't have been ten years ago.

Regarding Bi phobia, well a few of my friends are bi but I honestly couldn't tell you if they cop shit of gay people, certainly not in a politicised manner, maybe just talking behind peoples back in a personal sense.

One thing I've noticed is a that a few self defined "bitchy" gay men seem to think being gay gives them a free pass to be racist little fuckers, not to mention drag acts who are just nasty ignorant wankers to people.

So yeah whilst I can imagine who the gay community might solidify into a kind of "nationalism" with a fixation on policing its borders, it's not something I've ever experienced first hand, certainly as a straight man going to gay bars or events I've never felt at all excluded.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

One thing I've noticed is a that a few self defined "bitchy" gay men seem to think being gay gives them a free pass to be racist little fuckers, not to mention drag acts who are just nasty ignorant wankers to people.

There is a significant minority of gay men (or men who have sex with men who don't like describing themselves as 'gay') who seem to deal with their "oh shit i'm one of those poofs" discovery by trying even harder to be objectionable towards / consider themselves superior to any or all of - women, lesbians (seen as somehow even more contemptible than women - I don't quite grasp the logic myself) ethnic minorities, working class people, gays of a sort that they don't approve of.

I'm not sure I've got the energy for the gender and other politics of drag acts - I've encountered some who are good and some that are shite.

So yeah whilst I can imagine who the gay community might solidify into a kind of "nationalism" with a fixation on policing its borders, it's not something I've ever experienced first hand, certainly as a straight man going to gay bars or events I've never felt at all excluded.

I'd not really thought about that angle of it.

I've experienced some nasty looks (nothing more) when I used to go out on the town with a lesbian friend / colleague, and one or two people got the wrong idea.

The issue of 'should we let straights into gay bars?' is another one that isn't simple.

I've known small town gay bars be OK with a mixed-race straight couple who didn't feel comfortable / safe going elsewhere, and with a straight couple where he was a cross dresser and wouldn't have been safe in mainstream venues. I've also known some single straight women feel safe in gay venues. That having been said, those people have come in to the place on its own terms and have respected others.

I've also known gay venues that have gone 'gay friendly' and started letting anyone in, and they pretty soon become mainstream venues where it's not safe or comfortable to be openly gay.

And those that let hen parties in who have not treated the regulars with any respect...

 

[ViolentPanda]

I perceive them as being very different because gay pride is rooted in anti-oppression, and nationalism isn't.

Except when nationalism is rooted in a struggle against oppression, anyway.

 

[friendofdorothy]

oo I feel so nostalgic - haven't heard some of these gender / sexuality debates since the eighties, when I was an active member of the London Pride committee. We used to have them several times every week, often loudly and with bad temper. How we ever managed to put on a Pride festival escapes me - we we're too young and passionate to ever question whether it was possible.

It felt so liberating when the rainbow flag started to appear across London. Before that you needed a map and a compass to find a bar where you could go with your partner / find a partner / not be picked on / beaten up. Before that you needed to knock on a closed door hidden down a dark alleyway. It wasn't easy. Rainbow flags have never struck me as nationalistic.

Now a days I don't get out much, and when I do - its fine to go with the girlf almost anywhere in London. Its very queer friendly in my local now. In the small town where I grew up I think the only reason I don't get beaten up is everyone knows my big brother, if I still lived there I'd welcome a rainbow flag.