cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
Not convinced TBH, it's hard enough with health & care workers, but they spend most their working hours dealing with the most vulnerable, so there's a clear case with them.
Should the Covid vaccine be mandatory?
- Thread starter Flavour
- Start date
Not convinced TBH, it's hard enough with health & care workers, but they spend most their working hours dealing with the most vulnerable, so there's a clear case with them.
I think we are as near to beating covid as we are to eradicating cancer. Less than a year in and a third jab is being rolled out. It's pretty alarming if this carries on much longer. Carers and NHS staff are far more likely to catch covid of their kids now so it stands to reason if we mandate them to protect patients we mandate kids.
Potentially indefinitely.
Potentially indefinitely.
mojo pixy
○-<{[°_°]}>-○
Bar staff?
DJs, live performers?
(Closed, sweaty spaces full of people breathing close together)
Public transport drivers?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I'm uncomfortable with forcing adults to do something they don't want to, but I have no problems both incentivising it, (£1k for the full course?) and making life difficult for those who choose not to.
If you couldn't work - IE, actually be sacked or not employed - in any public facing, or crowded environment role, your kids couldn't go to school, you couldn't go to the pub or shops etc.. without vaccination, or an NHS exemption cert, then I think uptake would be pretty high.
It allows those who really believe to not have it, but it also allows the rest of us to live our lives without contact with those who refuse it.
I also think another lockdown would help take up - it's no longer the key to anything now. Make it the key, and more will use it.
If you couldn't work - IE, actually be sacked or not employed - in any public facing, or crowded environment role, your kids couldn't go to school, you couldn't go to the pub or shops etc.. without vaccination, or an NHS exemption cert, then I think uptake would be pretty high.
It allows those who really believe to not have it, but it also allows the rest of us to live our lives without contact with those who refuse it.
I also think another lockdown would help take up - it's no longer the key to anything now. Make it the key, and more will use it.
moochedit
I'm not feeding seagulls
Genetically engineered spiders with covid vaccine instead of venom
(I'm already vaxxed by the way)
Flavour
hang the bankers
As DotCommunist said earlier, this essentially is forcing people to get the vaccine, as only the very rich could afford not to in those circumstances. See also: any law for which the penalty for breaking it is a fine exists only for the poor.
Flavour
hang the bankers
Agreed. I made the poll because I was a genuine "Don't know" but think I've been convinced that it's not a good idea
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
People who don't want to risk being infected by unvaccinated colleagues also don't seem to have a lot of good options.
8ball
Merr xmas...
I'd have loved to have seen a fully vaccinated population as much as anyone in favour of compulsion some months back, but I think now the fear has subsided a little and also the drawbacks are more evident.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Is this not akin to saying that Prison is only a threat against people who don't like enclosed spaces?
8ball
Merr xmas...
No.
8ball
Merr xmas...
I'm not keen on awkwardness as a strategy, but I'm totally happy for it to be a condition of working in nursing homes or close patient care.
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
I thought the ACLU made a good case for vaccine mandates here:
While the permissibility of requiring vaccines for particular diseases depends on several factors, when it comes to Covid-19, all considerations point in the same direction. The disease is highly transmissible, serious and often lethal; the vaccines are safe and effective; and crucially there is no equally effective alternative available to protect public health.
In fact, far from compromising civil liberties, vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties. They protect the most vulnerable among us, including people with disabilities and fragile immune systems, children too young to be vaccinated and communities of color hit hard by the disease.
While the permissibility of requiring vaccines for particular diseases depends on several factors, when it comes to Covid-19, all considerations point in the same direction. The disease is highly transmissible, serious and often lethal; the vaccines are safe and effective; and crucially there is no equally effective alternative available to protect public health.
In fact, far from compromising civil liberties, vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties. They protect the most vulnerable among us, including people with disabilities and fragile immune systems, children too young to be vaccinated and communities of color hit hard by the disease.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Not mandatory at all, that would be too far and a tad fascist. Bullet to the back of the head for all refusers though would help stop the spread and raise global IQ at the same time.
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strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
Yes for the police, if only for the heartening pictures coming out of America of anti-vax coppers quitting the force in protest and cleansing the institutions of at least some of the scum.
E.g.
E.g.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
not really sure .
I know that nurses have to have the flu shot, but not too sure if others do.
Not in the UK. Hep B and only in theatres.
mojo pixy
○-<{[°_°]}>-○
There was a bit of an argument about this a few months ago on another thread. It turns out flu vaccines are not actually mandatory anywhere in the world. That is, nowhere is it 'jab or job'. If anything it tends to be 'jab or mask up', but that does look set to change in some places. I've yet to hear a convincing argument for why, and I don't believe it will protect any vulnerable people. If anything it will have a detrimental effect on recruitment and retention, which creates far more serious safeguarding risks, from understaffing, and from overworked, stressed staff who are left.
But healthcare workers are an easy target, especially in social care where most staff aren't unionised. I think this is going to be counter productive. I actually think the measure re HC workers is a cynical attempt by a tory government to show its elderly constituency 'hey look what we did for you!' after the pandemic care home fiasco.
Plus care staff, they don't much vote tory.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
The world is a big place, so it would be hard to say something like nowhere in the world.
Yes, nurses have to have the flu shot in Ontario.
I know this because I have a friend who is a nurse.
elbows
Well-Known Member
As of several years ago nurses unions in Ontario kept winning court cases in regards a 'vaccine or mask' rule, and even if they had lost there was still a non-vaccine option under those rules.
Flu vaccination: Toronto hospitals cannot implement staff “vaccinate or mask” policy, says ruling
A group of hospitals in Toronto, Canada, must abandon a policy of forcing healthcare workers to wear surgical masks during the flu season if they have not received the vaccine, an arbitrator has ruled. The Ontario Nurses Association successfully argued that the requirement was unreasonable...
Influenza “Vaccinate or Mask” Policy Overruled Again By Arbitrator
Nurses in Ontario Canada cannot be compelled to accept vaccinations
mojo pixy
○-<{[°_°]}>-○
Yes, as above, it's 'jab or mask up', not jab or job.
I did look into it in some depth and found nowhere (I looked at the UK, France, Germany, Israel, China, South Korea, Japan, Australia, USA) where it's jab or job for healthcare staff. However, I accept my research wasn't exhaustive, so if you find an example somewhere of 'jab or job' for healthcare staff prior to 2021 (not Hep B for theatre staff, I mean flu) then I'd be keen to hear about it.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Thanks for letting me know that I misinterpreted her comments.
I asked my nursing friend to let me know if the flu shot was mandatory. She agrees with you.
Thanks for pointing out that I got the wrong end of the stick.
Armed with my new knowledge, I still vote that the vaccine should not be mandatory.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Why would anyone who is a nurse or doctor refuse though? I just can't understand how you can be in that job and be wary of medical science. Two bullets to the back of their heads, just to make certain.
elbows
Well-Known Member
There are many aspects, including that if you work in the field then you understand or at least get to hear about or witness some of the limitations, dangerous assumptions, generalisations, arrogance and fuckups that are part of the scene.
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