Should socialists vote for the SNP at 2015 general election?

[Spanky Longhorn]

fairplay to Salmond if he does that, I'd vote for him even - anti-Liberal tactical voting for the win.

 

[weepiper]

From what I've seen of Neil Findlay, he's struck me as quite an impressive figure who doesn't come with the sort of toxic baggage of Murphy, and what's more, unlike Murphy, doesn't immediately come across as a bit of a cunt. You'd think the Labour party would be mad not to support him over Murphy but that's exactly what I expect to happen.

He's sooooo socialist he thinks we should do away with universal benefits

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ont-right-to-question-free-services-1-3598795

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

He's sooooo socialist he thinks we should do away with universal benefits

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ont-right-to-question-free-services-1-3598795

In the quote he said it was right to raise the question but that he supports the principle of universalism?

 

[brogdale]

Funny old place, Inverness...

 

[weepiper]

In the quote he said it was right to raise the question but that he supports the principle of universalism?

The quote is bloody confused. I don't see him getting people to vote for him if he can't even articulate himself.

 

[Casually Red]

The working people of Scotland, according to brogdale's opinion polls, have turned their faces against Labour. It could be that this does indicate that the still angry Independence types are seeking revenge. Equally though, we may be witnessing the complete, and maybe, permanent eclipse of Labour as a serious force in Scottish politics. Where were Labour throughout the long years of de-industrialisation and serious social mayhem? - well, we all know they were bag carrying for Thatcher's free marketeers. it now appears that Labour's social base, ie, the formerly organised working class, may have decided that they are tired of being manipulated and impoverished by ugly professional charlatans whose only values relate to their next promotion and pay increase.

The question still remains - but is now more acute. If the working class are rightly deserting Labour, shouldn't socialists consider doing similarly? The SNP have become the foremost social democratic organisation in Scotland, and, although it is quite unpalatable for many, this could be a very long term phenomenon.

It surely wouldn't be acceptable for socialists to enter this next period by being the cheer leaders for Milliband or Murphy. An explicit tactical vote for the SNP makes political sense to me. When the Left eventually creates its own serious organisation, that may change, but i don't see that happening currently.

looks like labour are finished for good up there . Sturgeon summed it up right ... choice between blue tories and red tories . The massive boost in membership for the SNP post referendum means theres completely new political dynamic at work in the new century . Yesterdays men .

hopefully SNP sweep the board electorally . If that happens then they should simply declare independence as the peoples mandated choice of government .

 

[redcogs]

Caught something on the news just now about the SNP considering allowing non party members to stand for them in the coming gen elec.

A fascinating development, that could see comrade Sheridan on an SNP ticket perhaps? i'd cast for him.

 

[brogdale]

(I know she's a politican and all that, but...) On R4's "Today" SNP leader, Nichola Sturgeon pretty much categorically ruled out any circumstance in which the SNP would consider propping up a minority tory administration, and was very cool about NuLab; implying that confidence and supply might be all that they could expect.

 

[weepiper]

Caught something on the news just now about the SNP considering allowing non party members to stand for them in the coming gen elec.

A fascinating development, that could see comrade Sheridan on an SNP ticket perhaps? i'd cast for him.

No fucking way. If they've any sense Sheridan won't get within a country mile of an SNP ticket.

 

[brogdale]

No fucking way. If they've any sense Sheridan won't get within a country mile of an SNP ticket.

Sounds like bollux to me. What party, confident of it's own policy platform, leadership and membership would do that? "Government of all the talents" sounds like that NuLab/tory bollux.

 

[butchersapron]

Sounds to me like there may be pressure from the new party members on the members and organisation that existed before the referendum and they may feel they're not getting a fair crack of the whip.

 

[brogdale]

Sounds to me like there may be pressure from the new party members on the members and organisation that existed before the referendum and they may feel they're not getting a fair crack of the whip.

Yeah, but redcogs said non party members?

 

[weepiper]

Greens and SSP have been pushing for the General Election to be fought as a Yes Alliance for some time.

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah, but redcogs said non party members?

Both were mentioned in the thing i read - the 60 000 new members were the main bit (they may not qualify to stand due to length of membership maybe?) and the non-party members seemed to be just a less important point. I'll try and recall what i read.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yeah, but redcogs said non party members?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30044274

SNP leaders plan to change party rules to allow non-members to stand as candidates in the general election.

The move is designed to appeal to activists who campaigned for a "Yes" vote in the independence referendum.

 

[weepiper]

 

[butchersapron]

This is what i meant above - note the 'allow' in the first para:

The party’s annual conference is expected to endorse plans on Friday to allow its newest members to stand for election, after its ranks were swelled by more than 60,000 new activists and supporters after the referendum.

In a potentially far-reaching move, the party could also promote non-SNP candidates as part of a broader “yes alliance” of independence campaigners, allowing them to stand in place of the SNP under that wider banner.

 

[redcogs]

Wow weepiper, that is really fascinating, and really could be terminal for Labour. Excellent.

 

[danny la rouge]

This is what i meant above - note the 'allow' in the first para:

Yes, previously party rules said you had to have been a party member for a year prior to selection, I think. This move will allow the new members to stand for the 2015 GE.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, previously party rules said you had to have been a party member for a year prior to selection, I think. This move will allow the new members to stand for the 2015 GE.

New lot throwing their weight around already!

 

[danny la rouge]

New lot throwing their weight around already!

So it would seem. Or maybe the old lot wondering how best to keep the new lot interested.

 

[redcogs]

i don't normally become aroused at the prospect of a general election, direct action has my preference.

But the 2015 in Scotland especially has the capacity to produce serious turmoil for conventional politics and the disgusting Labour pricks who only sowed seeds of reaction around the referendum ?

 

[brogdale]

This is what i meant above - note the 'allow' in the first para:

Ah, yes. Not unlike the 'kipper/tory stuff that allowed candidates like Reckless to stand with an undivided half of the spectrum...(political...that is).

 

[weepiper]

Caught something on the news just now about the SNP considering allowing non party members to stand for them in the coming gen elec.

A fascinating development, that could see comrade Sheridan on an SNP ticket perhaps? i'd cast for him.

Someone has pointed out on facebook that Sheridan's still barred from standing - he's not legally allowed to stand for election again until 2016

 

[danny la rouge]

Another article mentioning the non-member "Yes alliance" plan. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...almond-indepence-campaigners-general-election

Not sure exactly what the proposal entails yet, but it could be a very smart move. It might allow people who wouldn't normally vote SNP to tactically vote for such an alliance candidate. (And depending on the ground rules and the circumstances, that might include me. I watch with interest).

 

[redcogs]

Someone has pointed out on facebook that Sheridan's still barred from standing - he's not legally allowed to stand for election again until 2016

i heard a rumour that Tommy's imprisonment for perjury may be declared unsafe? i can't vouch for the source though.

If it were true, that may place a different complexion on the matter?

 

[danny la rouge]

i heard a rumour that Tommy's imprisonment for perjury may be declared unsafe? i can't vouch for the source though.

If it were true, that may place a different complexion on the matter?

Well, Tommy is circulating that rumour.

 

[brogdale]

A pre-released section of this afternoon's Sturgeon speech...

Overnight the party has briefed some extracts from the speech. There are three key messages.

• Sturgeon will argue that voting Labour is pointless.

Scotland’s patience with Labour - or the ‘dinosaurs’ as Johann Lamont affectionately calls them - is running out fast, and they know it.

They’ve got no positive case to make, so they will fall back on the same desperate mantra as before.

“You’ve got to vote Labour”, they’ll say, “to keep the Tories out.”

That is the biggest con trick in Scottish politics and we must not fall for it again.

Scotland did vote Labour at the last general election, but we still ended up with the Tories - and if the people of England vote Tory again next May, it won’t matter how we vote.

A Tory government is what we’ll get. Or worse, a Tory/Ukip government.

If that happens, the very last thing Scotland will need are Labour MPs who cosy up to the Tories.

Difficult to argue with that.

 

[weepiper]

More from Sturgeon's speech

Mrs Sturgeon said the odds on a hung Parliament “shorten by the day”.

“Scotland could well hold the balance of power in a Westminster parliament with no overall majority."

"If that happens, I promise our country this. You won't need to have voted Labour to keep the Tories out, because that's what we'll do.

"My pledge to Scotland today is simple - the SNP will never, ever, put the Tories into government."

Laying out the demands the nationalists would make for a pact with Labour, she said: “Think about how much more we could win for Scotland from a Westminster Labour government if they had to depend on SNP votes.”

"They'd have to deliver real powers for our parliament. They'd have to rethink the endless austerity that impoverishes our children.

"They'd have to think again about putting a new generation of Trident nuclear weapons on the River Clyde."

 

[brogdale]

Salmond showing he's still up for play...hinting at notion of SNP MPs dropping their self-imposed EVEL position, and offering confidence and supply to a minority Miliband-led administration.

Alex Salmond has hinted that the Scottish National party would be prepared to set aside the convention that its MPs do not vote on laws that only affect England in order to support a minority Labour government at Westminster.

Such a move – on a “vote by vote” basis – could put Ed Miliband into Number 10 Downing Street even if Labour was not able to secure an outright majority. It would infuriate the Tories who could argue that Scottish MPs were pushing through legislation for which there was no majority in England.

Currently, SNP MPs at Westminster abstain on English-only legislation.