Should socialists vote for the SNP at 2015 general election?
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
he's a shit of the first water
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Teetotal, I think?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
he's a shit, right-wing blairite.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
He abstained from the Palestine recognition vote. Sums him up.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i met him when he was nus president and he was a twat then.
one of the two current mps i've met, the other is the tory therese coffey who i once beat in an election.
they're both wankers.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
So...quite appealing to the Maureen Lipman faction, then?
But seriously, how's Murphy going to go down with the 'lost sheep'?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I'm probably not the person to ask; I've been amazed at how loyal Scottish voters were to the Labour party for decades now. (And I'm an ex-member myself).
However, my take is that he won't play well at all. He's not personally likeable. He comes across as smug and arrogant. And he has an appalling record on every marker issue - Iraq, on the investigation into the Iraq war, replacing Trident, and so on. He piloted this: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Legislative_and_Regulatory_Reform_Bill And he's an arch Blairite.
What also should play against him is that he says he wants to be First Minister, but he isn't an MSP yet! The presumption that he can become the Scottish Labour Leader first and an MSP later will surely not go down well.
Where will he stand? His own patch? The two sitting constituency Labour MSPs there are fairly well known, and deposing either would be a bad move. One is a former leadership contender (last time) whom Miliband was unable to name in a TV interview, and the other a former "Scottish Politician of the Year". So he'd need to parachute into another constituency, while sitting Westminster MP for East Renfrew, or top the party regional list somewhere. But where?
He's also divisive within the Scottish Labour party - he isn't liked or trusted in the party.
So would he win back Labour voters? I can't see how.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Thanks for that Danny
So, having alienated huge sections of the former 'core' with their desperate and self-interested 'unionism', they're likely to compound that by choosing an abrasive Blairite. Genius.
Will Murphy be able to win over the union element of the college?
Didn't Salmond do that, or am I misremembering?
I remember meeting Murphy when he was NUS president, very polished, the students won't vote for him though now when they find out he greased the way for student loans, etc.
also as welfare secretary he brought in ESA, etc, odious..
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Similar, and he did get a lot of stick in the media for it, but his situation was different in three important respects. First, Salmond found a Holyrood constituency in the North East, where his Westminster constituency was and where he'd build a presence and relationship, second it was three years after becoming SNP leader, and third, he did so by contesting a seat the SNP didn't hold at the time. (He became leader in 2004, and won Gordon from the Lib Dems in 2007. The constituency subsequently disappeared in a round of boundary changes).
Sturgeon (Salmond's deputy) during that time was the leader of the SNP group in Holyrood, but they were in opposition, and nobody seriously expected them to form the government (or "lead the Executive" as it was then termed). So Salmond was party leader, but not group leader in Holyrood. Had the SNP formed the Executive before Salmond found a seat to contest, Sturgeon would have become First Minister, not Salmond. (And this wouldn't have been unusual for the SNP - they'd had party leaders in the past, before Holyrood, who weren't MPs. The leader of the SNP group in Westminster didn't have to be the leader of the party).
Murphy, on the other hand, has said: “I am very clear that the job I'm applying for is to be first minister of Scotland.” (Quoted here). That isn't the job he's applying for. He's applying for leader of Scottish Labour. Were Labour to win the Holyrood election before Murphy found a seat, the group leader in Holyrood would become FM, not Murphy. (And that, until last night, would have been Sarwar, the interim leader and Lamont's deputy, but he's resigned now, too). Were he to find a seat in a by election, say, he'd be leader of the opposition, until Labour gets a chance to win the Holyrood GE.
So, given that the Holyrood general election is in 2016, Murphy is saying he'll find a seat by then, win it, and become FM. That seat will not be in the area he currently represents in Westminster unless he plans to oust sitting Labour MSPs. He would be seen as carpet bagging if he stands in an area he has no relationship with. (He could cast his net a little wider by contesting a seat Labour doesn't currently hold, but is he really likely to do that if he plans to be FM by 2016?)
We'll see how he gets on, and how the media react. (I predict they'll be far kinder to Murphy than they were to Salmond, although in my view Murphy's position is more precarious than Salmond's was).
Like this. Ffs.
'To many people in Scotland, Jim Murphy is that tall, lean politician who ran into the Clutha bar to help survivors of a helicopter crash.
To be fair, he has never attempted to trade on the image in any way.
On that dark November night, his shirt still stained with blood, he repeatedly asked me not to paint him as a hero, insisting others had done much more to help.
But his actions do suggest that the affable, softly-spoken, football fan has a steely core.'
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29830363
I asked this in the other thread (Politicasl polling) but what are Neil Findlay's chances I wonder?
danny la rouge ?
danny la rouge ?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Are you a betting man? If you can afford to lose £10... do something else with it.
Wasn't going to bet, just wanted to know more about it. Cheers.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
He's not going to win, is what Im saying.
Id never heard of him. Boyack and Murphy, yes, but not him.
The working people of Scotland, according to brogdale's opinion polls, have turned their faces against Labour. It could be that this does indicate that the still angry Independence types are seeking revenge. Equally though, we may be witnessing the complete, and maybe, permanent eclipse of Labour as a serious force in Scottish politics. Where were Labour throughout the long years of de-industrialisation and serious social mayhem? - well, we all know they were bag carrying for Thatcher's free marketeers. it now appears that Labour's social base, ie, the formerly organised working class, may have decided that they are tired of being manipulated and impoverished by ugly professional charlatans whose only values relate to their next promotion and pay increase.
The question still remains - but is now more acute. If the working class are rightly deserting Labour, shouldn't socialists consider doing similarly? The SNP have become the foremost social democratic organisation in Scotland, and, although it is quite unpalatable for many, this could be a very long term phenomenon.
It surely wouldn't be acceptable for socialists to enter this next period by being the cheer leaders for Milliband or Murphy. An explicit tactical vote for the SNP makes political sense to me. When the Left eventually creates its own serious organisation, that may change, but i don't see that happening currently.
The question still remains - but is now more acute. If the working class are rightly deserting Labour, shouldn't socialists consider doing similarly? The SNP have become the foremost social democratic organisation in Scotland, and, although it is quite unpalatable for many, this could be a very long term phenomenon.
It surely wouldn't be acceptable for socialists to enter this next period by being the cheer leaders for Milliband or Murphy. An explicit tactical vote for the SNP makes political sense to me. When the Left eventually creates its own serious organisation, that may change, but i don't see that happening currently.
Cheers, danny la rouge . Wasn't sure I had remembered right, and my head-up-arse state wasn't helping me piece it together.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Apparently not. The unions seem to be lining up behind Findlay. (Unison, TSSA and Aslef have already backed him, Unite has "poured scorn" on Murphy, and Unite Scotland secretary Pat Rafferty has endorsed Findlay in a personal capacity).
Also, the MSPs from Murphy's patch have said they won't be stepping aside for him: they're planning to stand again in 2016. In another twist, he has been forced to evade questions of whether he'll stand again for Westminster in 2015. If he stands for Westminster again after committing to lead the Scottish Labour Party in Holyrood (and become FM), he'll look a bit ridiculous. It hadn't even occurred to me that it'd be a possibility. (It's one thing seeing out your term as an MP, but actually standing again for Westminster before even securing a seat in Holyrood shows a lack of commitment to the Scottish Parliament, surely).
If nothing else, it shows a lack of confidence imo.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
...or just the logic of psychopathy?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
..and Darling is off to the city.
Conveniently there's a vacancy at UBS since Leon Brittan "retired" as Vice Chairman in September.
Conveniently there's a vacancy at UBS since Leon Brittan "retired" as Vice Chairman in September.
From what I've seen of Neil Findlay, he's struck me as quite an impressive figure who doesn't come with the sort of toxic baggage of Murphy, and what's more, unlike Murphy, doesn't immediately come across as a bit of a cunt. You'd think the Labour party would be mad not to support him over Murphy but that's exactly what I expect to happen.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
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