Let the battle begin
Sheridan wins libel case
- Thread starter junius
- Start date
JHE said:
Or it is quite possible they believed Sheridan's story. As we've seen throughout the case the only NOTW witnesses that can half-way be described as credible are drawn from the SSP executive. It's not difficult for a jury to come to the conclusion that accusations fielded by a bunch of chancers in hock to Murdoch were seized upon by Sheridan's factional opponents. That's why in my humble opinion the NOTW appeal will fail.
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
All sides are playing the victorian morality card.
That is the shameful thing.
So what if people swing.
So what if people have orgies.
The whole thing is a stiff upper lip, judgemental morality play.
That is the shameful thing.
So what if people swing.
So what if people have orgies.
The whole thing is a stiff upper lip, judgemental morality play.
Sectrian Invective Festival! To the Beer Tent!!! 
junius said:
No idea! <whistles innocently
>Are you glad Tommy won the case, junius? Answer the question please!
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
William of Walworth said:Sectrian Invective Festival! To the Beer Tent!!!
I'm glad Tommy won the case, but I'm very disapointed in his victorian heavy speech outside court.
Tarring the working class like they don't like group sex.
Sooner or later a good old fashioned sexual revolution will come along and upset everyone's apple cart.
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
munkeeunit said:
LEGAL DISCLAIMER:
In today's libellous climate I would like to make clear that I am in no way implying or inferring that Tommy thinks all working class are too decent to engage in swinging or group sex, or that he in anyway might have said anything like that, at all, in any way, on any level.
Beer tent.
God save the Queen
Oddly enough, Sky News (prop. R Murdoch) is using the court report to reiterate the NotW (prop. R Murdoch) case.
"Blah blah five in a bed cocaine swinger smear smarm scandal shame blah blah but the jury mutter" - but the NotW is going to appeal and accuses Sheridans witnesses of lying.
"Blah blah five in a bed cocaine swinger smear smarm scandal shame blah blah but the jury mutter" - but the NotW is going to appeal and accuses Sheridans witnesses of lying.
dennisr
the acceptable face
anybodygotapen? said:
You seem to have missed the last almost a decade though - Francis and Colin left Militant along with Tommy and most of the leadership of what became the SSP a long while ago after a long internal discussion. They have now fallen out between themselves. Depsite the many differences with Tommy, the SP (Militant as was... the 'unreconstructed' ones) have supported Sheridan in his court battle with NoW.
vince noir
maximum impact tagline
What a great victory over the bourgeois media!
Oh, and I notice TS has sold his story to the Daily Record, Scotland's leading red top and rival of the NoW. Read all about it, pages 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7!
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/
Oh, and I notice TS has sold his story to the Daily Record, Scotland's leading red top and rival of the NoW. Read all about it, pages 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7!
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/
dennisr
the acceptable face
vince noir said:
I suppose he's just using whatever he can to get his side across - i wouldn't attack him for that as I imagine the NoW will be using its control of the other newspapers to continue to defend its arguements even though it lost in court. The various newspapers have their own motives of course.
nightbreed
Im Bored
I think this a brilliant victory for Sheridan but not for the SSP
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/5246956.stm
The bourgieous always seem to have the last laugh. I believe there will be a split vote at the next elections with two SSP's, maybe a 'realSSP' and a 'RespectSSP' spliting the anti new labour vote.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/5246956.stm
The bourgieous always seem to have the last laugh. I believe there will be a split vote at the next elections with two SSP's, maybe a 'realSSP' and a 'RespectSSP' spliting the anti new labour vote.
Tommy Sherian Statement
Comrades and friends,
A historic victory has been won against the scab empire of Murdoch's
News International!
The jury's verdict is a victory against press intrusion, against
hypocrisy, against lies. As such, it is not just a victory for me and
my family – it is a victory for workers, trade unionists, and genuine
socialists everywhere.
The battle against News International has ended – but our collective
battle for the heart and soul of the SSP is only just beginning.
Victory was won, despite the parade of political scabs who were
prepared to testify to a dodgy and illegitimate minute, in effect
collaborating with the NOTW. It is now crystal clear, if it was not
before, that the United Left Network faction and it's co-travellers
used my dispute with the NOTW to attempt to undermine me both inside
and outside the party.
They have been prepared to put their personal hatred and political
differences ahead of party unity and fundamental socialist solidarity.
In doing so, they have dragged the name of this party through the mud
at home and internationally.
We who represent the majority of the SSP must now take our party back,
we must bend our every muscle and sinew to the democratic renewal of
our party and the rebuilding of the SSP as a broad socialist party
working people can believe in.
Never again must a single faction dominate the leadership and
apparatus of this party!
Never again must socialist betray socialist and side with the bosses'
press!
Gail and I would like to thank you all for your marvellous support
during these difficult times. It has been an absolute inspiration.
The faction perverted the word – but we will always stand UNITED.
I intend to speak formally with friends and comrades over the next few
days and would hope to issue a wider political statement shortly.
Meanwhile stay strong and thanks once again for your incredible
continuing support.
Tommy Sheridan MSP
__._,_.___
Comrades and friends,
A historic victory has been won against the scab empire of Murdoch's
News International!
The jury's verdict is a victory against press intrusion, against
hypocrisy, against lies. As such, it is not just a victory for me and
my family – it is a victory for workers, trade unionists, and genuine
socialists everywhere.
The battle against News International has ended – but our collective
battle for the heart and soul of the SSP is only just beginning.
Victory was won, despite the parade of political scabs who were
prepared to testify to a dodgy and illegitimate minute, in effect
collaborating with the NOTW. It is now crystal clear, if it was not
before, that the United Left Network faction and it's co-travellers
used my dispute with the NOTW to attempt to undermine me both inside
and outside the party.
They have been prepared to put their personal hatred and political
differences ahead of party unity and fundamental socialist solidarity.
In doing so, they have dragged the name of this party through the mud
at home and internationally.
We who represent the majority of the SSP must now take our party back,
we must bend our every muscle and sinew to the democratic renewal of
our party and the rebuilding of the SSP as a broad socialist party
working people can believe in.
Never again must a single faction dominate the leadership and
apparatus of this party!
Never again must socialist betray socialist and side with the bosses'
press!
Gail and I would like to thank you all for your marvellous support
during these difficult times. It has been an absolute inspiration.
The faction perverted the word – but we will always stand UNITED.
I intend to speak formally with friends and comrades over the next few
days and would hope to issue a wider political statement shortly.
Meanwhile stay strong and thanks once again for your incredible
continuing support.
Tommy Sheridan MSP
__._,_.___
I've never been a Militant or any supporter of the various successor sects or any similar sects. And despite the best efforts of this thead, I'm not too clued up on the ins and outs of Scottish left-group politics either.
I'm just a non aligned leftie (old school Trade Unionist) down here in London, who also has a few green and anarchoid sympathies round the edges.
In other words a non sectarian normal human being who thinks/talks about politics in English rather than in fluent sectarianese. Prefers Schnews, which doesn't take itself too seriously, to the average Trot newspaper, which does, and tends to print rant-slogans rather than English.
So can someone explain to me in simple English why on earth any leftie of any kind would resent or object to yesterday's victory in court for Sheridan? I'm glad, and I'm no supporter of his!
Yet junius, earlier up this thread, seemed to be blaming NoTW's libelling of Sheridan on Sheridan himself. The implication (??) of that is that he approves of those SSP members who testified against Sheridan in court and thus acted in favour of the NoTW -- very socialist ... does he wish NoTW had won maybe?? and does he wish them well in thsir likely appeal??
It's a mad world up there methinks.
Do help me out please people
Clear English preferred. Clip together Lego rantybollocks plucked straight from the headlines of a rant-Trot-paper will definitely not be favoured ... as won't incomprehensible interrogation of me demanding whether I think Colin Fox, who I'd scarcely heard of before this case, is a liar .. the relevance of junius asking me that earlier on, entirely escaped me ...
I'm just a non aligned leftie (old school Trade Unionist) down here in London, who also has a few green and anarchoid sympathies round the edges.
In other words a non sectarian normal human being who thinks/talks about politics in English rather than in fluent sectarianese. Prefers Schnews, which doesn't take itself too seriously, to the average Trot newspaper, which does, and tends to print rant-slogans rather than English.
So can someone explain to me in simple English why on earth any leftie of any kind would resent or object to yesterday's victory in court for Sheridan? I'm glad, and I'm no supporter of his!
Yet junius, earlier up this thread, seemed to be blaming NoTW's libelling of Sheridan on Sheridan himself. The implication (??) of that is that he approves of those SSP members who testified against Sheridan in court and thus acted in favour of the NoTW -- very socialist ... does he wish NoTW had won maybe?? and does he wish them well in thsir likely appeal??
It's a mad world up there methinks.
Do help me out please people
Clear English preferred. Clip together Lego rantybollocks plucked straight from the headlines of a rant-Trot-paper will definitely not be favoured ... as won't incomprehensible interrogation of me demanding whether I think Colin Fox, who I'd scarcely heard of before this case, is a liar .. the relevance of junius asking me that earlier on, entirely escaped me ...
JHE
.
William, I don't think those other Exec members wanted to be witnesses for the NotW. They didn't want the court case at all. TS was forced to resign because nobody else on the Exec supported his decision to sue. The SSP was forced to hand over the minutes of the Exec meeting and the Exec members were obliged to give evidence.
Personally, the thing I find most incredible is the idea that 11 members of the SSP Exec lied in court to do down TS.
Personally, the thing I find most incredible is the idea that 11 members of the SSP Exec lied in court to do down TS.
The above is new information to me, ta. Were those SSP exec members subpoena'd by the NoTW legal team to testify against Sheridan then?
I still don't understamd junius' apparant position though, or maybe I've misunderstood it ...
I still don't understamd junius' apparant position though, or maybe I've misunderstood it ...
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
William of Walworth said:
Yes.
A question people might ask themselves is why all the people who were TS closest collaborators over periods of up to twenty years in some cases, Keith Baldessara, Allan Green, Ritchie Venton, Alan McCombes, Felicity Garvie, to name just a few are now amongst his fiercest opponents.
vince noir
maximum impact tagline
William of Walworth said:
Will - yeah, as Tollbar says we're talking about people who've been his closest allies for years. It's one thing to expect them to perjure themselves in pursuit of some noble cause but, after admitting visiting the swingers' club to the SSP exec, he was asking them to risk a jail term to clear up tittle tattle about his private life. Remember, Sheridan chose to sue - instead of the allegations being in one newspaper, one Sunday, they were in every newspaper for weeks.
Alan McCombes, one of those subpoenaed by the NoW, actually went to jail for refusing to hand the minutes of the meeting over. He'd written a book with Sheridan and been extremely close to him. But it was asking too much to ask him to commit perjury when he was in the witness box.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Tommy Sheridan has put a number of people at the top of his party in the position of being dragged kicking and screaming to the witness box of the Court of Session to give evidence on behalf of News International. He has caused them to be labelled as liars. Mud will stick and those who are MSPs are unlikely to be re-elected, even on the basis of the party list.
If they are liars, then fair enough, though they have vehemently denied lying to the court and have been very consistent and clear. They are likely now be investigated by the police and may be charged, and if convicted will spend a long time in jail.
If, as is at least possible, they are not liars, then others who gave contradictory evidence may be liars. If the MSPs and others who gave evidence against Tommmy Sheridan were not lying, it might be fair to conclude, and it is at least possible, that Tommy Sheridan might have caused those others to lie, and may have lied himself. He and those other witnesses are also likely now be investigated by the police and may also be charged, and if convicted will also spend a long time in jail.
This is the position that the SSP now finds itself in. Everyone involved is likely to face a high profile police investigation. and some people may go to jail.
While Tommy Sheridan might get back into the Scottish Parliament at the general election eight months or so hence, the chances of others doing so have been reduced. At the last election, Tommy Sheridan got only 20% of the popular vote in the constituency in which he stood and got in on the party list with 7.3% of the vote across the City of Glasgow. Will he be able to repeat this? Maybe on the basis of this, if the mud doesn't stick, he will win a constituency, or do well enough to get in on the party list. But will Rosie Kane be able to get in this time in Glasgow? Will the others?
This has been a disaster for the SSP - whatever one thinks of their policies, their behaviour towards each other as human beings stinks.
If they are liars, then fair enough, though they have vehemently denied lying to the court and have been very consistent and clear. They are likely now be investigated by the police and may be charged, and if convicted will spend a long time in jail.
If, as is at least possible, they are not liars, then others who gave contradictory evidence may be liars. If the MSPs and others who gave evidence against Tommmy Sheridan were not lying, it might be fair to conclude, and it is at least possible, that Tommy Sheridan might have caused those others to lie, and may have lied himself. He and those other witnesses are also likely now be investigated by the police and may also be charged, and if convicted will also spend a long time in jail.
This is the position that the SSP now finds itself in. Everyone involved is likely to face a high profile police investigation. and some people may go to jail.
While Tommy Sheridan might get back into the Scottish Parliament at the general election eight months or so hence, the chances of others doing so have been reduced. At the last election, Tommy Sheridan got only 20% of the popular vote in the constituency in which he stood and got in on the party list with 7.3% of the vote across the City of Glasgow. Will he be able to repeat this? Maybe on the basis of this, if the mud doesn't stick, he will win a constituency, or do well enough to get in on the party list. But will Rosie Kane be able to get in this time in Glasgow? Will the others?
This has been a disaster for the SSP - whatever one thinks of their policies, their behaviour towards each other as human beings stinks.
Press Association, 05/08/06
A spokesman for Lothian and Borders Police confirmed that a member of the
public had made a complaint of perjury following the trial.
The man made the complaint after walking into a police station in Edinburgh.
Officers will now take a statement from him before seeking the advice of the
Crown Office on how to proceed.
A spokesman for the force said: "Information was lodged at the West End
police station at lunchtime today which will be considered by the Crown
Office."
During the case jurors had heard conflicting evidence regarding an emergency
meeting of the SSP's executive committee in November 2004.
Several key party figures - including leader Colin Fox and MSPs Carolyn
Leckie and Rosie Kane - stood in the witness box and said Mr Sheridan had
admitted to attending Cupids swingers' club in Manchester.
However, the Glasgow MSP called four witnesses - including SSP MSP Rosemary
Byrne - who testified that he had vehemently denied visiting the club.
Before the jury had retired to make its decision, Judge Lord Turnbull
suggested that the contrasting evidence may have meant some had been telling
lies and perjuring themselves - an offence punishable by jail.
"You might feel there is little conclusion other than some of them must have
lied in evidence," he told the jurors.
"It is an extremely serious state of affairs to tell lies in court. It is
acriminal offence of perjury and it is punishable by imprisonment."
A spokesman for Lothian and Borders Police confirmed that a member of the
public had made a complaint of perjury following the trial.
The man made the complaint after walking into a police station in Edinburgh.
Officers will now take a statement from him before seeking the advice of the
Crown Office on how to proceed.
A spokesman for the force said: "Information was lodged at the West End
police station at lunchtime today which will be considered by the Crown
Office."
During the case jurors had heard conflicting evidence regarding an emergency
meeting of the SSP's executive committee in November 2004.
Several key party figures - including leader Colin Fox and MSPs Carolyn
Leckie and Rosie Kane - stood in the witness box and said Mr Sheridan had
admitted to attending Cupids swingers' club in Manchester.
However, the Glasgow MSP called four witnesses - including SSP MSP Rosemary
Byrne - who testified that he had vehemently denied visiting the club.
Before the jury had retired to make its decision, Judge Lord Turnbull
suggested that the contrasting evidence may have meant some had been telling
lies and perjuring themselves - an offence punishable by jail.
"You might feel there is little conclusion other than some of them must have
lied in evidence," he told the jurors.
"It is an extremely serious state of affairs to tell lies in court. It is
acriminal offence of perjury and it is punishable by imprisonment."
Tommy Sheridan MSP said:
Go for it, Tommy! The SSP needed rescuing anyway. Once Sheridan was ousted the SSP went off in a sectarian trajectory, missing out on relating to the mass mobilisation around the G8, refusing to organise with boad based campaigns insisting instead that everything had to be SSP controlled or no go. Consequently down went the membership and the votes.
Seems that some so-called socialists were willing to prostitute themselves to the Murdoch press to fuck over a leading member they were involved in a faction fight with. They had no hope of winning an honest campaign amongst the membership so allied themselves with the right-wing establishment. Fuck 'em!
tollbar said:
Perhaps because they disagreed with Tommy Sheridan on the direction of the party. However, they could not defeat him because he is very popular amongst the party membership. The SSP had stood in elections listed as 'SSP: Tommy Sheridan'. Maybe they resented the fact that their influence over the party was eclipsed by Sheridan's and he did not agree with their more sectarian approach to a political electoral organisation of the left. To undermine his influence they needed to undermine the man.
The SSP will either move forward with Sheridan as an alliance of left forces prepared to engage in broader campaigns with others, or it will be led over a sectarian abyss by McCoombes et al from which they will make abstract calls for socialism to an ever shrinking audience.
Groucho said:
Fuck you, you cunt.
Fucking hypocrisy for anyone from the SWP to talk about people working in broad based campaigns they dont control.
Got the party line off to a T havent we. Your pals up here are going to be fucked over this because even Sheridans closest allies like John Aberdien are refusing to call for expulsions. The most they are calling for are the removal of those they regard as 'failed comrades' from office. No support for the 'immediate expulsions' line your sect are trying to get through branches. I suppose you think that people went into the witness box willingly, I suppose you conveniently forget that the witnesses were subpeoned by Sheridan as well as the NOtW.
This isnt over by a long way and some of those rejoicing now will live to regret some of their rash statements ere long.
Excellent result against the Murdoch press
As to the perjury claims, I haven't been following the fine details of the trial, is it possible that the NOTW claims didn't relate to the times that TS had admitted going to the club to the SSP (1996 & 2002)? Thus allowing for a fudge settlement where none of them had really committed perjury? I appreciate this is unlikely but does anyone know for definite?
As to the perjury claims, I haven't been following the fine details of the trial, is it possible that the NOTW claims didn't relate to the times that TS had admitted going to the club to the SSP (1996 & 2002)? Thus allowing for a fudge settlement where none of them had really committed perjury? I appreciate this is unlikely but does anyone know for definite?
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
It's a disaster for the SSP, 'pending appeal' and 'perjury trial' notwithstanding.
They've been as savage with each other as any other political party can be.
Tommy came out on top in this one, and party politics aside the main thing is beating the News International machine in the courts.
They've been as savage with each other as any other political party can be.
Tommy came out on top in this one, and party politics aside the main thing is beating the News International machine in the courts.
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