Sensible information and advice about Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[two sheds]

can you use an old mask that has been in the cupboard, my cleaner is coming soon, i have the flu, if not C19, and want to protect her.

If you do have it, the virus is going to be all over your place isn't it?

 

[magneze]

Volunteer to help those most in need with CovidCall

Can you help those in self-isolation? Sign up today to help your community.

covidcall.org

 

[weltweit]

This looks interesting, sharing your unused computer power to help in the search for a solution to covid-19, they want to get 1,000,000 computers linked up and have so far reached 474 PetaFlops.

Apparently the worlds fastest super computer is only 148 PetaFlops!

Folding@home – Fighting disease with a world wide distributed super computer.

foldingathome.org

 

[gentlegreen]

This looks interesting, sharing your unused computer power to help in the search for a solution to covid-19, they want to get 1,000,000 computers linked up and have so far reached 474 PetaFlops.

Apparently the worlds fastest super computer is only 148 PetaFlops!

Folding@home – Fighting disease with a world wide distributed super computer.

foldingathome.org

I'll take a punt on that, but it's contingent on my PC not overheating or the creaky PSU fan not keeping me awake.

 

[Badgers]

Volunteer to help those most in need with CovidCall

Can you help those in self-isolation? Sign up today to help your community.

covidcall.org

Looks good. Nothing in my area and although I am happy to give my time am not sure I want to 'create a new community' and can't see what that would entail anyway/

Volunteer to help those most in need with CovidCall

We're a group of volunteers. We set up Covid Community Ltd, a volunteer run Community Interest Company. It's funded entirely from donations and takes no profit.

We're only collecting donations to keep this service running! It costs around 20p per phonecall (although this varies with the length of the call!) because we want to keep it free for people calling the number. All donations go towards the hosting costs of the service.

Can't see this being promoted on social media?

 

[gentlegreen]

My poor old PC couldn't cope with protein folding - even set to the lowest commitment level...
I'm at the stage where I have to shut everything down to stream HD video ...

 

[weltweit]

My poor old PC couldn't cope with protein folding - even set to the lowest commitment level...
I'm at the stage where I have to shut everything down to stream HD video ...

I am not sure about mine also, it is quite ancient. I might have a try though, does it require a reliable broadband connection? Because at the moment I don't have one of those either!! ?

 

[Orang Utan]

are masks overkill? seeing people wearing them a lot, but not so many wearing gloves, which seems a bit the wrong way round

 

[Gimigimi]

are masks overkill? seeing people wearing them a lot, but not so many wearing gloves, which seems a bit the wrong way round

I've been wearing a bandana over my nose + mouth when I have to go out - don't have any real masks but since the virus is spread through aerosols I figured any sort of barrier was better than nothing, and I saw some health organizations concur. I wear gloves sometimes but it seems like unless you're constantly throwing gloves away and wearing new pairs you'd still be contaminating whatever you touch, and bare hands are easier to wash than gloves, so I'm just trying to remember to wash my hands a lot and not touch my face. It's possible to disinfect your hands but not your respiratory tract.

 

[elbows]

I have mentioned faecal oral route a few times before, but I dont think it ever got much emphasis in UK public health advice. I note that according to NERVTAG minutes of 3rd February it should have, so I am going to post what they said here.

PH summarised that NERVTAG agrees that hand washing promotion is recommended and this is extrapolated from other respiratory viruses. NERVTAG acknowledges that there have been cases where diarrhoea is present and therefore faecal oral route is a potential route of transmission. Given that and the available information, NERVTAG gives a recommendation of increased hand hygiene in general and regularly and after visiting the toilet.

From Box

NERVTAG = New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group

 

[editor]

Useful link: Get coronavirus support as an extremely vulnerable person

 

[SheilaNaGig]

The loss of taste and smell as an early symptom.

This is a hypothesis, but there’s no harm in it so:

Zinc deficiency causes loss of smell and taste.

Zinc is essential for the immune system to function well.

Early infection causes the immune system to power up and use extra zinc.

The increased efforts of the immune system depletes zinc.

Taste and smell are affected.

So, it makes sense to top up on zinc.

Meat
Eggs
Legumes/pulses
Seafood
Nuts
Seeds

 

[Azrael]

I've been wearing a bandana over my nose + mouth when I have to go out - don't have any real masks but since the virus is spread through aerosols I figured any sort of barrier was better than nothing, and I saw some health organizations concur. I wear gloves sometimes but it seems like unless you're constantly throwing gloves away and wearing new pairs you'd still be contaminating whatever you touch, and bare hands are easier to wash than gloves, so I'm just trying to remember to wash my hands a lot and not touch my face. It's possible to disinfect your hands but not your respiratory tract.

Still under self-imposed quarantine (following WHO advice, not govt's), but have run up a bleach spray that's easy to use on variety of surfaces, which makes life a lot easier. Have developed dermatitis from all the handwashing, so mixing in hand gel now and then (over 70% alcohol, so should do the job, and when I've run through 'em all, have bottle of surgical spirit to rustle up my own). As ever, none of this is advice, just what I've been doing.

 

[two sheds]

Thanks for sharing. I've also read that liquids should contain at least 70% alcohol in order to do the job.

60 to 80% apparently, with 70% being middle figure.

 

[Anju]

Just seen a Facebook post advising a vulnerable person asking about home delivery that delivery drivers would by now have gained immunity. Sounds wrong to me but wanted to check before commenting.

 

[prunus]

Just seen a Facebook post advising a vulnerable person asking about home delivery that delivery drivers would by now have gained immunity. Sounds wrong to me but wanted to check before commenting.

Yes that’s wrong.

Here though is a useful article from the Washington Post on this:

Joseph G. Allen is an assistant professor of exposure and assessment science and director of the Healthy Buildings Program at Harvard University’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

A recent study in the New England Journal of Medicine is making people think twice about how they might be exposed to covid-19 if they open a box delivered by UPS, touch packages at the grocery store or accept food delivery.

The risk is low. Let me explain.

First, disease transmission from inanimate surfaces is real, so I don’t want to minimize that. It’s something we have known for a long time; as early as the 1500s, infected surfaces were thought of as “seeds of disease,” able to transfer disease from one person to another.

In that new NEJM study, here’s the finding that is grabbing headlines: The coronavirus that causes covid-19 “was detectable . . . up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel.”

The key word here is “detectable.”

Yes, the virus can be detected on some surfaces for up to a day, but the reality is that the levels drop off quickly. For example, the article shows that the virus’s half-life on stainless steel and plastic was 5.6 hours and 6.8 hours, respectively. (Half-life is how long it takes the viral concentration to decrease by half, then half of that half, and so on until it’s gone.)

Now, let’s examine the full causal chain that would have to exist for you to get sick from a contaminated Amazon package at your door or a gallon of milk from the grocery store.

In the case of the Amazon package, the driver would have to be infected and still working despite limited symptoms. (If they were very ill, they would most likely be home; if they had no symptoms, it’s unlikely they would be coughing or sneezing frequently.) Let’s say they wipe their nose, don’t wash their hands and then transfer some virus to your package.

Even then, there would be a time lag from when they transferred the virus until you picked up the package at your door, with the virus degrading all the while. In the worst-case scenario, a visibly sick driver picks up your package from the truck, walks to your front door and sneezes into their hands or directly on the package immediately before handing it to you.

Even in that highly unlikely scenario, you can break this causal chain.

In the epidemiological world, we have a helpful way to think about it: the “Sufficient-Component Cause model.”Think of this model as pieces of a pie. For disease to happen, all of the pieces of the pie have to be there: sick driver, sneezing/coughing, viral particles transferred to the package, a very short time lapse before delivery, you touching the exact same spot on the package as the sneeze, you then touching your face or mouth before hand-washing.

In this model, the virus on the package is a necessary component, but it alone is not sufficient to get you sick. Many other pieces of the pie would have to be in place.

So this is what you can do to disassemble the pie — to cut the chain.

You can leave that cardboard package at your door for a few hours — or bring it inside and leave it right inside your door, then wash your hands again. If you’re still concerned there was any virus on the package, you could wipe down the exterior with a disinfectant, or open it outdoors and put the packaging in the recycling can. (Then wash your hands again.)

What about going to the grocery store? The same approach applies.

Shop when you need to (keeping six feet from other customers) and load items into your cart or basket. Keep your hands away from your face while shopping, and wash them as soon as you’re home. Put away your groceries, and then wash your hands again. If you wait even a few hours before using anything you just purchased, most of the virus that was on any package will be significantly reduced. If you need to use something immediately, and want to take extra precautions, wipe the package down with a disinfectant. Last, wash all fruits and vegetables as you normally would.

We should all be grateful for those who continue to work in food production, distribution and sales, and for all those delivery drivers. They’re keeping us all safer by allowing us to stay home. And, as I said, the risk of disease transmission from surfaces is real. We can never eliminate all risk; the goal is to minimize it — because we all will occasionally need to go grocery shopping and receive supplies in the mail.
But if you take basic precautions, including washing your hands frequently, the danger from accepting a package from a delivery driver or from takeout from a local restaurant or from buying groceries is de minimis. That’s a scientific way of saying, “The risks are small, and manageable.”

 

[Anju]

Yes that’s wrong.

Here though is a useful article from the Washington Post on this:

Thanks, Can't believe people are dishing out dangerous advice to vulnerable people. Well I can but FFS.

 

[zahir]

Link with advice that’s claims to be from John Hopkins University, but I’ve seen the source questioned elsewhere. Does anyone know if the information in this looks accurate?

Covid-19 is not a living organism! | Vaalweekblad

Johns Hopkins University share this summary to avoid contagion:

vaalweekblad.com

 

[zahir]

.

 

[two sheds]

Yes that’s wrong.

Here though is a useful article from the Washington Post on this:

.

Both really useful, thanks

 

[zahir]

Both really useful, thanks

I’m not sure about the link I posted now though. It was one that was sent to me and it seems to be going around on facebook. It isn’t clear where it originally comes from and I couldn’t really say if everything in it is accurate.

 

[prunus]

Link with advice that’s claims to be from John Hopkins University, but I’ve seen the source questioned elsewhere. Does anyone know if the information in this looks accurate?

Covid-19 is not a living organism! | Vaalweekblad

Johns Hopkins University share this summary to avoid contagion:

vaalweekblad.com

It’s a mixture of accuracies and half-truths, with a couple of bits of huh? (“it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin, eventually causing wrinkles and skin cancer.”). There’s nothing in there actually detrimental that I can see, but it’s not 100% accurate. If that came from Johns Hopkins I’m a monkey’s uncle.

 

[zahir]

Thanks. I should have stopped to think before posting it.

 

[David Clapson]

I have a proper P3 respirator, unworn. I'm trying to decide whether to give it to someone who really needs it. I'm not sure I do really. It's easy to keep a safe distance from people when food shopping or going for a walk. The only thing is, I have a flatmate who is WFH. And I have ME, which means I might be badly affected by Covid. Might...nobody knows. Even so, I can't see how this mask would be really helpful. If the flatmate gets symptoms, maybe one of us could wear the mask to reduce the chance of me getting infected...but realistically it seems inevitable that I'd pick it up from shared surfaces. What does the panel think?

GVS Elipse SPR501 Medium / Large Half Mask Respirator P3 - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Protects against fine dusts such as silica, asbestos and wood. Large central exhalation valve allows for a reduction in breathing resistance and keeps moisture build-up to a minimum. Lightweight for all-day comfort and ultra compact, giving less restriction to...

www.screwfix.com

 

[two sheds]

I’m not sure about the link I posted now though. It was one that was sent to me and it seems to be going around on facebook. It isn’t clear where it originally comes from and I couldn’t really say if everything in it is accurate.

I've seen a lot of the advice elsewhere - ta for the alert though if it's not totally accurate.

 

[Cid]

I have a proper P3 respirator, unworn. I'm trying to decide whether to give it to someone who really needs it. I'm not sure I do really. It's easy to keep a safe distance from people when food shopping or going for a walk. The only thing is, I have a flatmate who is WFH. And I have ME, which means I might be badly affected by Covid. Might...nobody knows. Even so, I can't see how this mask would be really helpful. If the flatmate gets symptoms, maybe one of us could wear the mask to reduce the chance of me getting infected...but realistically it seems inevitable that I'd pick it up from shared surfaces. What does the panel think?

GVS Elipse SPR501 Medium / Large Half Mask Respirator P3 - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Protects against fine dusts such as silica, asbestos and wood. Large central exhalation valve allows for a reduction in breathing resistance and keeps moisture build-up to a minimum. Lightweight for all-day comfort and ultra compact, giving less restriction to...

www.screwfix.com

I think once it's in your living environment, transmission is basically inevitable. There are just too many potential sources of contamination... Even if they self isolated in their room, presumably they'd still want to use the loo. Best to have a talk with your flatmate and make sure they're aware you might be vulnerable, and take care when out accordingly. I also wouldn't go out of your way to find someone to give it to, it's just another risk to both you and them.

WHO guidance on masks:

• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
• Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
• Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

Putting on a mask:

• Before putting on a mask, clean hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• Cover mouth and nose with mask and make sure there are no gaps between your face and the mask.
• Avoid touching the mask while using it; if you do, clean your hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• Replace the mask with a new one as soon as it is damp and do not re-use single-use masks.
• To remove the mask: remove it from behind (do not touch the front of mask); discard immediately in a closed bin; clean hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.

The current consensus does seem to be that they have a place, but more in terms of stopping you spreading the disease than stopping you getting it. In addition to what they say above I do kind of feel that a lot of people giving advice on masks don't actually wear them. Or don't have beards, or irritable faces. They're not very comfortable things and there's a bit of an urge to fiddle, scratch etc. Have to be aware of that.

Personal opinion: I think they might become more common here if we have several epidemic stages. They make sense if you start allowing access to public transport again, especially if used widely enough that asymptomatic people are wearing them... I realise that contradicts the above advice a bit, hence personal opinion.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Link with advice that’s claims to be from John Hopkins University, but I’ve seen the source questioned elsewhere. Does anyone know if the information in this looks accurate?

Covid-19 is not a living organism! | Vaalweekblad

Johns Hopkins University share this summary to avoid contagion:

vaalweekblad.com

As others have said...

I doubt that’s from John Hopkins. JH is a fairly large university with a good reputation. That article doesn’t say which department supposedly generated it. And the writing has plenty of grammatical errors, which a reputable organisation would do their best to avoid.

There’s nothing harmful in it but it’s just kinda shonky .

All viruses are sort of neither living nor dead. They sort of straddle the boundary line where inanimate matter and “life” meet. There are some pretty basic definitions of “living organism” and viruses comply with those most basic tenets. But as soon as you start adding in any further detail, viruses suddenly don’t conform to definitions of “living”.

They’re all like this, not just this coronavirus. So that headline is like saying “Orange juice is a wet fluid!” It’s just not news.

All viruses are these weird limnal entities. That’s what makes them viruses and not something else.

Are viruses alive?

Viruses seem to be more than more than just simple, inert bundles of genetic material – but do they count as living organisms?

www.newscientist.com

Are viruses alive?

microbiologysociety.org

And they drive evolution. Pandemics like this one are part of our evolutionary development.

Viruses revealed to be a major driver of human evolution

The constant battle between pathogens and their hosts has long been recognized as a key driver of evolution, but until now scientists have not had the tools to look at these patterns globally across species and genomes. In a new study, researchers apply big-data analysis to reveal the full...

www.sciencedaily.com

 

[Azrael]

I think once it's in your living environment, transmission is basically inevitable. There are just too many potential sources of contamination... Even if they self isolated in their room, presumably they'd still want to use the loo. Best to have a talk with your flatmate and make sure they're aware you might be vulnerable, and take care when out accordingly. I also wouldn't go out of your way to find someone to give it to, it's just another risk to both you and them.

WHO guidance on masks:

• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
• Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
• Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

Putting on a mask:

• Before putting on a mask, clean hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• Cover mouth and nose with mask and make sure there are no gaps between your face and the mask.
• Avoid touching the mask while using it; if you do, clean your hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• Replace the mask with a new one as soon as it is damp and do not re-use single-use masks.
• To remove the mask: remove it from behind (do not touch the front of mask); discard immediately in a closed bin; clean hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.

The current consensus does seem to be that they have a place, but more in terms of stopping you spreading the disease than stopping you getting it. In addition to what they say above I do kind of feel that a lot of people giving advice on masks don't actually wear them. Or don't have beards, or irritable faces. They're not very comfortable things and there's a bit of an urge to fiddle, scratch etc. Have to be aware of that.

Personal opinion: I think they might become more common here if we have several epidemic stages. They make sense if you start allowing access to public transport again, especially if used widely enough that asymptomatic people are wearing them... I realise that contradicts the above advice a bit, hence personal opinion.

No transmission here after 19 days following appearance of symptoms (must've got lucky while asymptomatic). Have kept to separate rooms at all times, washed loo down with bleach solution, washed any shared surfaces down with bleach after use, ditto taps, door handles & switches. Separate towels, toothbrush head soaked in bleach solution in jar, wiped down shower and sink with bleach after use. Bleach obsession aside, video calls are great, even if you do feel like you're reenacting an IT Crowd sketch.

 

[Cid]

No transmission here after 19 days following appearance of symptoms (must've got lucky while asymptomatic). Have kept to separate rooms at all times, washed loo down with bleach solution, washed any shared surfaces down with bleach after use, ditto taps, door handles & switches. Separate towels, toothbrush head soaked in bleach solution in jar, wiped down shower and sink with bleach after use. Bleach obsession aside, video calls are great, even if you do feel like you're reenacting an IT Crowd sketch.

Have you or anyone else in the house been tested?

 

[Azrael]

Have you or anyone else in the house been tested?

Nope, thanks for reminding me to always add disclaimer. (Several earlier in thread.) Course and symptoms matched C-19 very closely (including, unfortunately, GI symptoms), but until confirmed, always leave open the possibility it could be something else.