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Scotland to establish minimum unit price for alcohol

not sure there is such a responsibility

Fall over some equipment and break your hip at local Golf club see if you get a payout, you would in the states.
Government not protecting socety eventually end up like the situation in Zimbarbway, I know I can't spell it...underhouse arrest is where this government needs to be.
 
Consumption of alcohol has been decreasing without MUP, so I'm not convinced that it is "something" that needs to be done in the first place. If problem drinking is an issue, then MUP is the wrong solution because out of the entire drinking population, addicts are far less likely to change their habits due to price increases than non-addicts.

One can justify all sorts of crappy policies because it's doing something rather than nothing.
yeh. something must be done. why not lop off the politicians' heads, it would make more sense.
 
Fall over some equipment and break your hip at local Golf club see if you get a payout, you would in the states.
Government not protecting socety eventually end up like the situation in Zimbarbway, I know I can't spell it...underhouse arrest is where this government needs to be.
i wouldn't be allowed on the grounds of the local golf club :mad:

not after the incident with the weedkiller :mad:
 
Fall over some equipment and break your hip at local Golf club see if you get a payout, you would in the states.
Government not protecting socety eventually end up like the situation in Zimbarbway, I know I can't spell it...underhouse arrest is where this government needs to be.

Just realised I am not making any sense, burned out and long weekend ahead. Off to sleep.
 
Consumption of alcohol has been decreasing without MUP, so I'm not convinced that it is "something" that needs to be done in the first place. If problem drinking is an issue, then MUP is the wrong solution because out of the entire drinking population, addicts are far less likely to change their habits due to price increases than non-addicts.

One can justify all sorts of crappy policies because it's doing something rather than nothing.

I agree totally that this will not help addicts, who will just find or get the money or the drink somehow (as can be seen with much more expensive addictions). Can imagine it reducing what we call binge drinking though, maybe.

Can't figure out if the studies when they say 'alcohol related harm' include accidents that happen when people are pissed or just long term alcohol related disease?
 
I agree totally that this will not help addicts, who will just find or get the money or the drink somehow (as can be seen with much more expensive addictions).Can imagine it reducing what we call binge drinking though, maybe.
Can't figure out if the studies when they say 'alcohol related harm' include accidents that happen when people are pissed or just long term alcohol related disease?
you know they define a binge as three pints or thereabouts?
 
you know they define a binge as three pints or thereabouts?

Out of curiosity I decided to look it up. Blow me down, you're more or less right:

What is binge drinking?
The NHS defines binge drinking as “drinking lots of alcohol in a short space of time or drinking to get drunk”.1

Because everybody is different, it is not easy to say exactly how many units in one session count as binge drinking. The definition used by the Office of National Statistics for binge drinking is having over 8 units in a single session for men and over 6 units per women.2

Of course, people may drink at different speeds or drink over a different amount of time and this definition may not apply to everyone.

What we can say is that the risks of short-term harms like accidents or injuries increase between two to five times from drinking five-seven units.3 This is equivalent to 2-3 pints of beer.

The sorts of things more likely to happen when people drink too much or too quickly on a single occasion include accidents resulting in injury, misjudging risky situations or losing self-control.

They also recommend alternating your drinks with water. LOL who the fuck does that?
 
I agree totally that this will not help addicts, who will just find or get the money or the drink somehow (as can be seen with much more expensive addictions). Can imagine it reducing what we call binge drinking though, maybe.

Can't figure out if the studies when they say 'alcohol related harm' include accidents that happen when people are pissed or just long term alcohol related disease?

I know a binge can happen anywhere, but it will make little difference to people on a night on the town, unless you set the MUP very high.
 
Consumption of alcohol has been decreasing without MUP, so I'm not convinced that it is "something" that needs to be done in the first place. If problem drinking is an issue, then MUP is the wrong solution because out of the entire drinking population, addicts are far less likely to change their habits due to price increases than non-addicts.

One can justify all sorts of crappy policies because it's doing something rather than nothing.
Consumption of alcohol may have been falling in recent years but it's still well over double what people drank in the 50s, and looking at the overall figure doesn't necessarily tell you much about those people who are drinking at risky levels.

I think if you had personal experience of coping with someone with an alcohol problem you might think that 'something' needs to be done. This won't help my partner who has a drinking problem, but will may benefit a couple of quite vulnerable people I know.
I agree totally that this will not help addicts, who will just find or get the money or the drink somehow (as can be seen with much more expensive addictions). Can imagine it reducing what we call binge drinking though, maybe.
I think the theory is not that it stops addicts drinking, but they will generally drink a bit less without such a plentiful supply of very cheap booze. There's a difference between what an alcoholic might need to drink as maintenance to prevent withdrawal taking place and what they might drink on a proper binge.
 
I just had a read about Sweden where all alcohol is expensive and the only shops you can buy drink over 3.5% are a government monopoly (has been so since the 1950s), with weird opening hours. Either that or massively expensive bars. Whether this means swedes have a very low rate of alcohol-related problems I don't know.They don't seem to drink significantly less than UK.
 
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Consumption of alcohol may have been falling in recent years but it's still well over double what people drank in the 50s, and looking at the overall figure doesn't necessarily tell you much about those people who are drinking at risky levels.

Didn't they still have rationing in the 50s? Thus it seems disingenuous to use that decade as a point of comparison.
 
I just had a read about Sweden where all alcohol is expensive and the only shops you can buy drink over 3.5% are a government monopoly (has been so since the 1950s), with weird opening hours. Either that or massively expensive bars. Whether this means swedes have a very low rate of alcohol-related problems I don't know.They don't seem to drink significantly less than UK.
Depends what figures you look at but looks like they drink 20-30% less than the UK.
 
Didn't they still have rationing in the 50s? Thus it seems disingenuous to use that decade as a point of comparison.
They didn't ration alcohol. It may well be that it was relatively more expensive though, which could kind of prove the point that price does make a difference.
 
I just had a read about Sweden where all alcohol is expensive and the only shops you can buy drink over 3.5% are a government monopoly (has been so since the 1950s), with weird opening hours. Either that or massively expensive bars. Whether this means swedes have a very low rate of alcohol-related problems I don't know.They don't seem to drink significantly less than UK.
Overall alcohol consumption rates don't appear to be very correlated to alcohol tax levels internationally. Looking at the list of countries' overall consumption, you have high-tax and low-tax countries mixed together, suggesting that tax levels don't affect overall drinking rates that much. For instance, the UK slots in just above three European countries with much lower alcohol tax, Belgium, Spain and Bulgaria. These figures don't capture the levels of problem drinking, of course.

Sweden comes in very low in that list, but I wonder if it takes account of Baltic booze cruises, which are very popular among Swedes.
 
you know they define a binge as three pints or thereabouts?

The binge drinking definition is indeed ludicrous. 2 Henry Westons special vintage.

Far more useful is the units measurement itself. Well, it would be if anyone could do maths or bothered to read the bottle.

FWIW, this is how units work One unit = 10ml of alcohol.

So what's that?

Take the Henry Weston example. 8.2%. That means, of a 500ml bottle, 8.2% is alcohol. And 8.2% of 500ml is 41ml. Therefore one HW special vintage = 4.1 units.

Wine. A 14% 750ml bottle. 14% x 750ml = 105ml. 10.5 units.

It's then up to you to decide whether the guide of 20 something units a week is reasonable. But you can only work that out if you know what you're drinking in the first place, as per the above.
 
They didn't ration alcohol. It may well be that it was relatively more expensive though, which could kind of prove the point that price does make a difference.

You still haven't justified using the 50s as a point of comparison. Why that decade?
 
They didn't ration alcohol. It may well be that it was relatively more expensive though, which could kind of prove the point that price does make a difference.
A person's overall wealth makes a difference - we still see that with the drinking levels now, which go up as you go up the wealth scale. There was certainly less disposable income in the 1950s. Also, women used not to drink anywhere near as much as men. Now they do. Since the 1950s, we've developed a taste for wine and also lager, which is significantly stronger than most of the ales that used to be drunk. And drinking at home has increased.

This article outlines some of the changes. The rise in women drinking is probably the single biggest factor.
 
You still haven't justified using the 50s as a point of comparison. Why that decade?
Why any decade? The twentieth century pattern is that alcohol per capita was higher than now in 1900, but plummeted for obvious reasons post WW1, and fluctuated at a pretty low level until the 1960s when it began to climb, reaching a peak in the early 2000s.
 
I'd suggest that anyone who thinks this is a hideous idea should maybe spend a weekend on call with the emergency services. I don't have a problem with people not being able to get shitfacedly drunk cos that's what this was supposed to address. They aren't banning alcohol, you can still drink. Ok it will be more expensive but if that saves 100s/1000s/more for the services we need how is that a bad thing?

Sorry but as someone who knows far too many local alcoholics I don't have a problem with this.
 
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