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Scotland to establish minimum unit price for alcohol

I don't think plain packaging would achieve much. But a restriction on the amount of places that can sell alcohol might. And in supermarkets, all sold in a separate walled off section with different tills. And I'd make sure existing laws about selling alcohol to drunk people are more widely enforced.
 
And fwiw from my experience, the smoking ban was the biggest motivator in me giving up, not sure I could have managed it whilst continuing to go in to smoking pubs/restaurants/planes/offices etc. Added to that the NHS has had a big push on their stop smoking services and the approach they use seems to have become far more refined, plus there are a few new options, such as Champix, so all in all it is much easier to stop now that it was before the ban came in.
 
I think it may stop some younger people from taking it up; as a kid I was fascinated by the ritual of smoking and part of that was the being a Rothaman's man, a Silk Cut woman and so on. But in those days the packets were on the pub or restaurant tables for all to see, so they could be part of your identity, now they are in your pocket/bag cos you have to go outside to smoke, so people won't be put off from smoking cos of the lack of glamour as the only people who see the packets are already smoking, but it may, possibly stop kids associating smoking with glamour.

Yes, precisely. It's mainly a barrier to recruitment of new smokers. But - again, as you say - there's an important thing about associating the chosen brand with the choice to smoke. An attack on brand loyalty must reduce one incentive not to quit.
 
Tis possible, but you'd still know the difference between a beer/cider and a wine/spirit then, which gives one cache over the other (which way depends on your point of view). Plus unless you drink from the can/bottle you decant in to a glass. In a pub or restaurant it is decanted before you see it, so you'd never see the green packaging...

Yeah, the difference between a packet of cigarettes, a pack of cigars and a pinch of rolling tobacco is still very clear when a tobacconist rolls back the shutters. But none of them look very appetising. The point is to undermine the brands, not to frustrate choice.
 
And I'd make sure existing laws about selling alcohol to drunk people are more widely enforced.
the problem with that one is you place the staff in the position of deciding who is drunk and how much. Thats fine in a pub where you have backup or a large shop but there are plenty of smaller places where people could really do without getting a slap/dogs abuse from someone drunk enough to be out of control but still able to handle money and demand more ale. There were fri/sat night manning the place alone where the 'can he stand up straight and handle money' test was the wisest course of action when I was in the (off) trade. Which is obviously against the spirit (lol) of the regs, but reality intrudes
 
there's an important thing about associating the chosen brand with the choice to smoke. An attack on brand loyalty must reduce one incentive not to quit.

By the time I quit I had long worked out that I didn't care which brand I smoke, but with Richmond being £7 a pack vs. £9 for Bensons, I went for Richmond, or Mayfair or whatever else was the cheaper ones available.

When the plain packaging was first mooted was hilarious watching the fag-lobby argue against it, they were trying to suggest that the branding is there to encourage existing smokers to switch brands and not in any way to encourage people to take up smoking, so they were pressed on the claims that brand A is smoother, richer, etc. than brand B, therefore the taste will speak for itself, so branding won't be needed, cos as above, smokers are real connoisseurs and fussy fuckers...
 
the problem with that one is you place the staff in the position of deciding who is drunk and how much. Thats fine in a pub where you have backup or a large shop but there are plenty of smaller places where people could really do without getting a slap/dogs abuse from someone drunk enough to be out of control but still able to handle money and demand more ale. There were fri/sat night manning the place alone where the 'can he stand up straight and handle money' test was the wisest course of action when I was in the trade. Which is obviously against the spirit (lol) of the regs, but reality intrudes

Excellent point. Sale of alcohol to be restricted to outlets with at least four employees on duty, on pain of license withdrawal.
 
Well, quite. When the branding had stopped working on you - partly as a result of the pricing strategy - you ended up quitting.

I smoked whatever came my way for about 10 years, so wouldn't really attribute the branding or even cost as a factor in my quitting.

edit: But branding was a factor in me starting. My dad smoked Rothmans, the Le Mans Porsche was sponsored by Rothmans; from an early age I saw Rothmans as something to aspire to. When I was 13 and started buying fags I went with Camel, to be different from my Benny-smoking mates, to stand out from the crowd and so on. What a berk.
 
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Excellent point. Sale of alcohol to be restricted to outlets with at least four employees on duty, on pain of license withdrawal.
in some Corby places they literally have all the product behind a plastic cage. You walk into the shop and the desk is covered like a bank desk. Ask for what you want. There used to be a couple of Unwins like that up north before it folded. My place didn't get any new security or new staff even after I was robbed with a gun for the nights takings. We parted company soon after. Its a dominoes now. But the security issue is a concern, your solution would cost the businesses more so unless it was actual licensing law (itself oft abused anyway)...
 
Excellent point. Sale of alcohol to be restricted to outlets with at least four employees on duty, on pain of license withdrawal.

It just comes back to availability again though. I suspect this is far more a critical aspect than other things such as branding etc. Would put a fuckton of small shops out of business as booze is what keeps them afloat, unlikely they'd be able to survive on selling crisps and pot noodles alone. Does that matter though?
 
At the 12 steps places i went to (groups for drugs not alcohol) I don’t remember a single person saying they’d stopped because they couldn’t afford it anymore, instead life for many became all about how to get the necessary funds to maintain their addiction.
Not convinced measures like this can help people who are addicts at all.
 
It just comes back to availability again though. I suspect this is far more a critical aspect than other things such as branding etc. Would put a fuckton of small shops out of business as booze is what keeps them afloat, unlikely they'd be able to survive on selling crisps and pot noodles alone. Does that matter though?

Well, if even more small shops go out of business, then I am sure that the likes of Tesco will be happy enough to take up the slack and open more of those mini-stores of theirs.
 
Well, if even more small shops go out of business, then I am sure that the likes of Tesco will be happy enough to take up the slack and open more of those mini-stores of theirs.

Yeah. Which ever way you shake this its a win win for tesco. Minimum pricing well put more money straight onto the bottom line and future controls could kill their smaller competitors.
 
Yeah. Which ever way you shake this its a win win for tesco. Minimum pricing well put more money straight onto the bottom line and future controls could kill their smaller competitors.
I would create a new category of 'community pub' (not sure exactly how it would be defined) and ensure that through tax breaks etc that alcohol was always cheaper sold on those premises than in supermarkets or other outlets.
 
Doesn't seem to matter when they talk about taking down crack dealers.


((((crack dealers))))

More like your friendly neghbourhood crack dealer who just needs an extra income to keep his nan in a nice residential home being sent to the bottom of a canal by a multinational crack cartel.
 
Anecdotally I think the plain packaging and no displaying of fags has made a massive difference to kids taking up smoking. My partner is 51 and started smoking aged 9. I am 40 and started when I was 14. My eldest is 14 and none of her pals smoke and you don't see kids hanging about smoking at lunchtime anymore.
 
May? But treatment centres are merely one example, there are plenty of other tools that the extra funding could be used to support that would tackle alcohol addiction.

But this minimum price thing won't produce extra funding. Well, only as far as it involves VAT on the higher prices. But if, as the idea seems to be, people suddenly stop drinking alcohol or drink a lot less, then there can't really be any money raised that way, can there? I might be missing out something here. Will put on heater so I can think better.
 
I would create a new category of 'community pub' (not sure exactly how it would be defined) and ensure that through tax breaks etc that alcohol was always cheaper sold on those premises than in supermarkets or other outlets.
That, and tbf I'm sure you meant it to be, is in the Department of Nice Ideas. I can't really see how you could make a bottle of wine that you go and fetch from a shop yourself to have with dinner or even loads of bottles of wine, beer, whisky to have a party and get utterly pissed on, more expensive than drinks that bar staff pour for you into a glass that they have provided for you (and which they will later wash) and which you then drink using the nice seats and tables also cared for by the bar staff, and which you later, in slightly altered format, dispose of into the toilets provided and maintained by this community pub, finding your way there by the useful electric lighting etc.
 
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Anecdotally I think the plain packaging and no displaying of fags has made a massive difference to kids taking up smoking. My partner is 51 and started smoking aged 9. I am 40 and started when I was 14. My eldest is 14 and none of her pals smoke and you don't see kids hanging about smoking at lunchtime anymore.

Think it was moving the minimum age from 16 to 18 that had the biggest effect on kids smoking.
 
Does that matter though?
yeah. On some estates theres a paucity of shops entirely and plenty of places, including my local shop have taken in the post office role as well, its not just beer fags and food they do the essentials you really don't want to make a trip to town for. Loo roll, dogfood, nappies, sannies, etc.
We are well served at my precise location because I'm one street length off one of the towns arterial routes but in the periphery these are needed shops especially for low income families and the elderly, people with mobility problems etc. Corby is much much worse for the virtual desert of shops on the estates. Being used to a city-sized town like northampton the idea that people might close a shop before 2 am was harsh. But if you shut these places down by making the produce out of peoples price range then it all goes, the post office, the where to buy you metered leccy/gas, phone credit etc.

e2a presumably one day this crap will all be doable from a computer/phone (I haven't seen the inside of a supermarket since they started delivering online) and everyone will know how to do that and have the means. But its not today
 
Corby can’t be sorted without a massive state investment in trouser presses. One in every home. A big push by Liam Fox to get them adopted worldwide.
 
It just comes back to availability again though. I suspect this is far more a critical aspect than other things such as branding etc. Would put a fuckton of small shops out of business as booze is what keeps them afloat, unlikely they'd be able to survive on selling crisps and pot noodles alone. Does that matter though?
It does matter a bit. If you've got a couple of small Jenny A'Things/"Corner shop" shops in a residential area, then it does kind of matter that they stay in business, because, although their prices will be higher than those of big supermarkets, they are usefully closer to where people are.

If you can handle the walk to the convenience shop, but not to the big supermarket (which could be a bus ride away), then you can fetch some fruit/veg, potatoes, tins of beans, bread, milk, eggs, tea, postage stamps, washing-up liquid, cheeese, bacon and yeah, even unto the Bad Things like sugar and chocolate and booze and smokes. So that's quite handy for a lot of people, perhaps especially if elderly or not easily able to get to supermarket. It's probably handy, too, in that one could safely send a child to fetch a couple of things from a local shop with no road-crossing involved, whereas a long trek to supermarket would be not-so-good.

When I did have local shops, I would quite deliberately use them for some things, even if more expensive than further-away supermarket, partly because I wanted them to exist and partly because, really, it IS much easier to carry a load of potatoes and bananas and milk and (AND booze and smokes sometimes) and what-have-you for a short distance than for a long one.
 
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