scientists piss about with genes, making sure only desired sex is born

[Pickman's model]

Groundbreaking use of CRISPR selects sex of mice with 100% efficiency

Researchers at Francis Crick Institute and the University of Kent have used the CRISPR gene-editing system to produce litters of mice that are 100 percent either male or female. The technique could help prevent the unnecessary culling of animals of unwanted sex in agriculture or scientific…

newatlas.com

so at the moment they're only doing this with mice but it doesn't take much to suggest that this might find a use in those parts of the world where a boy, for example, is perceived as the more desirable offspring

 

[existentialist]

Groundbreaking use of CRISPR selects sex of mice with 100% efficiency

Researchers at Francis Crick Institute and the University of Kent have used the CRISPR gene-editing system to produce litters of mice that are 100 percent either male or female. The technique could help prevent the unnecessary culling of animals of unwanted sex in agriculture or scientific…

newatlas.com

so at the moment they're only doing this with mice but it doesn't take much to suggest that this might find a use in those parts of the world where a boy, for example, is perceived as the more desirable offspring

Meddling with evolution is rarely, if ever, cost-free. Watch this space. Social, as well as biological, factors come in to play. About 15 years too late.

 

[weltweit]

I can imagine Chicken farmers will be interested in this, male chicks are routinely chucked in the grinder because they can't lay eggs. They probably just make nuggets :/

 

[urbanspaceman]

Meddling with evolution is rarely, if ever, cost-free. Watch this space. Social, as well as biological, factors come in to play. About 15 years too late.

Don't really understand your ominous comment - what costs of meddling / factors in play do you refer to ?

Anyway, this isn't meddling with evolution, it's just terminating a species, if done widely. I can see the process being extended to chickens, but then a population of cockerels must also be maintained, to mate with the CRISPR hens.

As for people, sex-selection ultrasound scans have already been doing the job quite effectively in China and India for decades. I don't think villagers will really want or need to pay for expensive next-generation genetic engineering procedures.

 

[NoXion]

It looks to me like the real problem is with the social practice of expensive dowries when marrying off girls. Not "meddling scientists".

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Don't really understand your ominous comment - what costs of meddling do you refer to ?

Anyway, this isn't meddling with evolution, it's just terminating a species, if done widely. I can see the process being extended to chickens, but then a line of cockerels must also be maintained, to mate with the CRISPR hens.

As for people, sex-selection ultrasound scans have already been doing the job quite effectively in China and India for decades. I don't think villagers will really want or need to pay for expensive novel genetic engineering procedures.

There's a real problem in China because there aren't enough women to marry all the men because of the population imbalance resulting from this.

 

[platinumsage]

I posted this in the veggie thread but surprisingly none of the veggies seemed interested in saving millions of animals from needless suffering and death.

 

[Pickman's model]

As for people, sex-selection ultrasound scans have already been doing the job quite effectively in China and India for decades. I don't think villagers will really want or need to pay for expensive novel genetic engineering procedures.

wouldn't it be easier to know in advance you were going to get a child of your desired sex than take pot luck and sort it out with an abortion then try again?

yeh it's been doing the job effectively. but will that still be so efficient as the price of this procedure declines?

 

[NoXion]

There's a real problem in China because there aren't enough women to marry all the men because of the population imbalance resulting from this.

So you're saying that the social problem has existed since before the deployment of this technology?

 

[MickiQ]

if it can be made cheap enough to work large scale on chickens then the only thing that will slow its adoption for use on humans is the need for it to be safe as well. You can afford to write off a percentage of hens during the process they can just be sent down to the canteen, humans it needs to be safe as well.
Once it is then it will start getting used no matter whether it's a good idea for the species as a whole. Not only are there places like India and China with social pressures to have male rather than female children, but even in the West you will find the attitude that the ideal family is one of each. I can find you loads of couples who kept going Weasley style until they flipped a tail after a run of heads (or vice versa)

 

[urbanspaceman]

It looks to me like the real problem is with the social practice of expensive dowries when marrying off girls. Not "meddling scientists".

The situation is bad for girls, whichever way the dowrie cash flows. In India, the bride's family pay the dowry, but in China the groom's family pay it.

 

[urbanspaceman]

There's a real problem in China because there aren't enough women to marry all the men because of the population imbalance resulting from this.

Yes, but this isn't meddling with evolution. It's just sex selection. The problem also exists in India.

 

[urbanspaceman]

wouldn't it be easier to know in advance you were going to get a child of your desired sex than take pot luck and sort it out with an abortion then try again?

yeh it's been doing the job effectively. but will that still be so efficient as the price of this procedure declines?

No. Abortions are easy, quick, certain, routine and extremely cheap in India and China. Certainly compared to:

"CRISPR-Cas9 is made up of two main components – the Cas9 enzyme cuts the cell’s DNA, and a guide RNA sequence tells it where to make that edit. To make CRISPR sex selective, the team split those components up among the parent mice. The mother contributes the guide RNA, while Cas9 is placed on one of the father’s chromosomes, depending on which sex is desired for the pups."

So both parents would need high-tech gene therapy, which would be permanent, unless followed by another course of CRISPR to undo it. And they wouldn't know whether it worked until they had the ultrasound scan. So the sort of people who would have CRISPR are rich, trusting, scientifically-informed, squeamish about abortions and happy to undergo whole-body genetic modification. I think that's a pretty small demographic.

 

[urbanspaceman]

if it can be made cheap enough to work large scale on chickens then the only thing that will slow its adoption for use on humans is the need for it to be safe as well. You can afford to write off a percentage of hens during the process they can just be sent down to the canteen, humans it needs to be safe as well.
Once it is then it will start getting used no matter whether it's a good idea for the species as a whole. Not only are there places like India and China with social pressures to have male rather than female children, but even in the West you will find the attitude that the ideal family is one of each. I can find you loads of couples who kept going Weasley style until they flipped a tail after a run of heads (or vice versa)

CRISPR changes nothing for humans. Ultrasound-plus-abortion sex selection is easy and cheap, and has been available for decades. And people in the West just don't use it. Thankfully, even in India and China, it appears to be slowly going out of fashion, as the grim consequences of a society with too many "bare branches" manifest.

 

[Pickman's model]

No. Abortions are easy, quick, certain, routine and extremely cheap in India and China. Certainly compared to:

"CRISPR-Cas9 is made up of two main components – the Cas9 enzyme cuts the cell’s DNA, and a guide RNA sequence tells it where to make that edit. To make CRISPR sex selective, the team split those components up among the parent mice. The mother contributes the guide RNA, while Cas9 is placed on one of the father’s chromosomes, depending on which sex is desired for the pups."

So both parents would need high-tech gene therapy, which would be permanent, unless followed by another course of CRISPR to undo it. And they wouldn't know whether it worked until they had the ultrasound scan. So the sort of people who would have CRISPR are rich, trusting, scientifically-sophisticated, squeamish about abortions and happy to undergo whole-body genetic modification. I think that's a small demographic.

i don't get the impression that you read my post (or indeed the op) because i made it clear i was talking about the future - eg when i talked about the price of the procedure reducing. not to mention that while abortions may be easy, quick, routine and extremely cheap they can also lead to complications. and this is simply the start of this procedure. as it progresses no doubt they'll be tweeking it to remove some of the issues you point to. obviously you're right as things stand now, but i have made it clear i wasn't talking about now.

 

[urbanspaceman]

if it can be made cheap enough to work large scale on chickens then the only thing that will slow its adoption for use on humans is the need for it to be safe as well. You can afford to write off a percentage of hens during the process they can just be sent down to the canteen, humans it needs to be safe as well.
Once it is then it will start getting used no matter whether it's a good idea for the species as a whole. Not only are there places like India and China with social pressures to have male rather than female children, but even in the West you will find the attitude that the ideal family is one of each. I can find you loads of couples who kept going Weasley style until they flipped a tail after a run of heads (or vice versa)"

"the only thing" Only is doing some heavy lifting there. I imagine government and regulators might have some pretty trenchant opinions.

 

[urbanspaceman]

i don't get the impression that you read my post (or indeed the op) because i made it clear i was talking about the future - eg when i talked about the price of the procedure reducing. not to mention that while abortions may be easy, quick, routine and extremely cheap they can also lead to complications. and this is simply the start of this procedure. as it progresses no doubt they'll be tweeking it to remove some of the issues you point to. obviously you're right as things stand now, but i have made it clear i wasn't talking about now.

No, I read it, but it just showed such a laughably poor understanding of the way human beings actually behave, especially people who are not rich.

I really can't imagine a couple from my ancestral village of Kitalguri taking the three hour bus ride to a clinic in Kolkata, spending a few days in the clinic having baffling and incomprehensible procedures done to them, and then being told they are both permanently changed at the molecular level, and they should trust the doctors' promises that they will only have boy children from now on, and that if it doesn't work out as promised, then sure, they'll get a refund for the wad of cash they just handed over. Because charlatans would never try to grift them.

The old ways work: get pregnant, walk across the fields to visit the ultrasound lady in the next village over, and have an abortion if required. And home in time for lunch.

Another small point. China's birth rate has plummeted to less than 1.7 per woman, and India's has surprisingly recently declined to replacement levels (2.1). So Indian women aren't punching out kid after kid, as the rather patronising Western stereotype would have it. You don't need permanent whole body genetic manipulation if you are only going to have two children.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, I read it, but it just showed such a laughably poor understanding of the way human beings actually behave, especially people who are not rich.

I really can't imagine a couple from my ancestral village of Kitalguri taking the three hour bus ride to a clinic in Kolkata, spending a few days in the clinic having baffling and incomprehensible procedures done to them, and then being told they are both permanently changed at the molecular level, and that they should trust the doctors that they will only have boy children from now on, and that if it doesn't work out the way, sure, they'll get a refund for the wad of cash they just handed over. Because charlatans would never try to grift them.

The old ways work: get pregnant, walk across to visit the ultrasound lady in the next village over, and have an abortion if required. And home in time for lunch.

Another small point. China's birth rate has plummeted to less than 1.7 per woman, and India's has surprisingly recently declined to replacement levels (2.1). So Indian women aren't punching out kid after kid, as the rather patronising Western stereotype would have it. You don't need permanent whole body genetic manipulation if you are only going to have two children.

sadly the world is not limited by what you can or cannot imagine
and as i've said above you're talking about this thing as it is. i am talking about this thing as it might become. your 'permanent whole body genetic manipulation' may become something rather more flexible.

 

[urbanspaceman]

sadly the world is not limited by what you can or cannot imagine
and as i've said above you're talking about this thing as it is. i am talking about this thing as it might become. your 'permanent whole body genetic manipulation' may become something rather more flexible.

Yeah, and we all might get a pony and a handjob at some unspecified and uncharacterised point in the future. You're just arguing or the sake of it now. Bye.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah, and we all might get a pony and a handjob at some unspecified and uncharacterised point in the future. You're just arguing or the sake of it now. Bye.

It's what we do on urban, argue for the sake of it. Or try to point out that someone's not understood the difference between what is and what may be - speculation being another core urban trait as someone here 17 years might be expected to know. Close the door on your way out

 

[platinumsage]

Perhaps there will be policies eventually along the lines of "Yes, you can go to a clinic and they'll ensure you have a boy, but you'll have to pay for someone else to have a girl" and then parents willing to definitely have a girl can get a big lump sum reward, funded by the boy-wanters. The government will adjust the payouts to maintain an appropriate gender balance.

 

[Spymaster]

Yeah, and we all might get a pony and a handjob at some unspecified and uncharacterised point in the future.

Bahnhof Strasse will do you a handjob for a pony if you ask him nicely.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Spy will suck off an horse for a score.

 

[Spymaster]

Spy will suck off an horse for a score monkey

You fluffed an open goal there.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

You fluffed an open goal there.

Was gonna go with that, but as we all know you are far cheaper than that.

 

[urbanspaceman]

Bahnhof Strasse will do you a handjob for a pony if you ask him nicely.

It's my favourite putdown; stolen from Avasalara in The Expanse. (Note: choose your search string carefully if you look this quote up using Google)

 

[Spymaster]

Was gonna go with that, but as we all know you are far cheaper than that.

I gave you that on a plate too

 

[Pickman's model]

It's my favourite putdown; stolen from Avasalara in The Expanse. (Note: choose your search string carefully if you look this quote up using Google)

It's not as good as 'i can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you'

 

[SpookyFrank]

I can imagine Chicken farmers will be interested in this, male chicks are routinely chucked in the grinder because they can't lay eggs. They probably just make nuggets :/

Cheaper to grind up thousands of boy chicks than to bother with complicated genetic engineering.

 

[weltweit]

Cheaper to grind up thousands of boy chicks than to bother with complicated genetic engineering.

Perhaps. I don't know the economics of it, but there are chicken sexers which decide if a chick is going to be male or female, at that age there is little to tell between them so they don't always get it right. I expect if they could guarantee female it could be worth something divided by the hundreds of thousands of chicks they deal with ..