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Science literacy: how confident are you?

Going back to the original question, I dropped chemistry, physics and biology at school as soon as I could. They were taught in such a boring way that I hated all those lessons and got nothing out of them. I am now extremely thick about any scientific matters and my mind just sort of glazes over when anything vaguely sciency is mentioned.

I'd love to learn stuff now, but don't know where to start.
 
I'd be proud Knotted. When I started reading about imaginary numbers and non-euclidean geometry my brain melted.

Do you think maths is found or invented?

I think imaginary numbers were invented. I used to know what imaginary numbers were for but I never really needed to use any of that stuff from A level maths in the real world, save maybe some statistics.
 
Going back to the original question, I dropped chemistry, physics and biology at school as soon as I could. They were taught in such a boring way that I hated all those lessons and got nothing out of them. I am now extremely thick about any scientific matters and my mind just sort of glazes over when anything vaguely sciency is mentioned.

I'd love to learn stuff now, but don't know where to start.

There are tons of great science writers who are accessible to just about anyone. Carl Sagan, Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Feynman, Steven Pinker, Michio Kaku and Carlo Rovelli are my top tips. Gould may actually be my favourite writer of all time.

E2a: If you're interested in brains you want Oliver Sacks or Kathleen Taylor.
 
There are tons of great science writers who are accessible to just about anyone. Carl Sagan, Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Feynman, Steven Pinker, Michio Kaku and Carlo Rovelli are my top tips. Gould may actually be my favourite writer of all time.

E2a: If you're interested in brains you want Oliver Sacks or Kathleen Taylor.
The Order of Time by Carlo Rovelli is too short but amazing.
I'm more of a Feyerabend man myself. ;)
8ball I know nothing about Paul Feyerabend. Where would I start?
 
There are tons of great science writers who are accessible to just about anyone. Carl Sagan, Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Feynman, Steven Pinker, Michio Kaku and Carlo Rovelli are my top tips. Gould may actually be my favourite writer of all time.

E2a: If you're interested in brains you want Oliver Sacks or Kathleen Taylor.
ElizabethofYork Them (except Carlo Rovelli, who I don't know - will check out - yay!).

Also Brian Greene (physics; The Elegant Universe in particular) and Antonio Damasio (brains).
 
The Order of Time by Carlo Rovelli is too short but amazing.

8ball I know nothing about Paul Feyerabend. Where would I start?

There was a lovely interview done not long before he died which gives some good background as well as some nice human touches, and for more detail and jumping-off points I quite like this (props to Sci Hub), which focuses on a particular time in his life and gives some context to what might seem like outrageous claims to someone steeped in a purely scientific education (as I was when I first learned about him as a throwaway afterthought / example of "how to do philosophy of science wrong" in my studies).

These are fairly middle-brow suggestions - your mileage may vary - there are a heap of Youtube videos explaining Feyerabend's thoughts and claims, many of them very good, and if you want to go to the other extreme you could dive into Against Method by the man himself - pdf copies are scattered about the internet.

You and Frank have intrigued me about that Carlo Rovelli book..
 
ElizabethofYork I think YouTube tutorials and mini lectures would be a good place to start. Then when you want to dive deeper into the meaning and foundation, go to the books.

Choose a topic or heading and look it up with the word “tutorial” added. That’s often a good place to start.

People in here scoff at YouTube but elsewhere I hear people talk about “the university of YouTube”. There is some excellent stuff available on there, from the engineering of a soda pop can to the physics of a volcano to the application of Euclidean (or non-Euclidean) geometry in everyday life, why botany matters, an introduction to microbiology/virology/organic chemistry...... etc. It’s endless and I think that’s really exciting.

If I’m stuck on something I’ll often turn to Youtube first. They have diagrams and comments underneath to give me an idea of the quality of the video. And it’s free, I don't have to invest in a huge and hugely expensive text book. And I can look at a range of different videos so I can start at the level I’m at and work up from there.
 
I'd be proud Knotted. When I started reading about imaginary numbers and non-euclidean geometry my brain melted.

Do you think maths is found or invented?

I used to think it was found, now I think it was invented. It certainly feels like you are exploring real objects that are out there and independent of you. If you're tending towards an "it's invented" point of view, you are more likely to be worried about how certain mathematical objects are constructed, especially the wild and woolly highly infinite things. Working mathematicians generally don't like to be bothered by such concerns, but philosophically a more austere approach is more satisfying I think.

Imaginary numbers, are strange and mysterious when you first learn about them. But tying them down to how eg. physicists tend to use them, they're just a useful tool to model cyclic phenomenon like waves.

Non Euclidean geometry is geometry on a non-flat surface. Historically it caused all sorts of angst. Technically Euclid's fifth (iirc) postulate about parallel lines turned out to be unprovable. But it turns out that space-time itself isn't flat (general relativity). Conceptually you can easily imagine a type of non Euclidean geometry - trying to draw a triangle on a sphere for example. The internal angles won't add up to 180 if you try it.
 
I used to think it was found, now I think it was invented. It certainly feels like you are exploring real objects that are out there and independent of you.

It's the way those objects "talk back" to you, and to each other, that makes me sceptical of the "invented" idea.
Though the "discovered" pole of thinking extends a bit too much in the direction of Platonic ideals for my taste.
 
and for more detail and jumping-off points I quite like this (props to Sci Hub), which focuses on a particular time in his life and gives some context to what might seem like outrageous claims to someone steeped in a purely scientific education (as I was when I first learned about him as a throwaway afterthought / example of "how to do philosophy of science wrong" in my studies).
That’s a great article — thanks for that.

In the context of this thread, I found this spoke to me:

Fifth, the privileged role of science is identified as a primary cause of what Oakeshott called the ‘frustration of education’. For one thing, scientific knowledge and institutions are central features of the ‘surrounding world’ of modern students—of our ‘local world’, whose ‘world-picture’ is granted by the sciences (see Heidegger, 1977). For another, it is the sciences which are judged to be the repositories of truth and knowledge and not the humanistic disciplines—philosophy or poetry, say—which are consequently reduced to ‘cultural decorations’ (Heidegger, 1999, p. 108). The ‘multi-modal’ character of human life requires that we find a place for ‘the voice of poetry’ in the ‘conversation of humankind’—to cite the title of one of Oakeshott’s books—and resist that sort of scientism which would silence those voices (Oakeshott, 1959). Indeed, such scientism is an obstacle not only to releasement, but also to a venerable conception of philosophy as a humane, critical discipline (see further Kidd, 2012). The sort of knowledge provided by the sciences is useful for certain cognitive and practical purposes, such as describing the properties and behaviour of ‘stable, impersonal entities’—of ‘mass and measurement’ (Oakeshott, 1933, pp. 176, 169–170). But it is ‘simply a mistake’, argues Feyerabend, to privilege that sort of knowledge alone, for human life involves many ‘different kinds of objects and features’, including many for which humanistic approaches—rather than scientific ones—are appropriate (Feyerabend, 2001, pp. 214–215). It is therefore the privileged status of science within education which undermines releasement because it privileges a particular form of knowledge, thereby further entrenching certain features of the ‘surrounding world’.
 
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On maths: I would prefer to call it “constructed” rather than “invented”. Arguably, all knowledge is constructed, and I don’t see maths as having a privileged position in that. For a start, knowledge is located within a particular context that gives it meaning. That context includes a cultural understanding of what the purpose of the knowledge is. Maths is no different in this regard.

Mostly, I view it a bit like language. Languages are constructs but there is something in their construction that enables thought. Maths is a construct that enables thought to be developed about the patterns of the universe. I think there is a difference between the patterns and the construct we use to understand those, though. The way we understand the patterns depends on the nature of the construct, for example.
 
That’s a great article — thanks for that.

In the context of this thread, I found this spoke to me:
Ah, now there we have some common ground. I don't think science is the only way to view the world or the only Serious and Important Thing.

I get even more cross with pseudoscience that comes from an attempt to be taken seriously than I do with pseudoscience that's 'merely' a con (although I also despise the latter). We don't have to view everything scientifically, but the pressure to do so leads to a whole load of mumbo jumbo. Annoyingly, I can't think of a specific example of what I mean, but if I do, I'll post it up.
 
Mostly, I view it a bit like language. Languages are constructs but there is something in their construction that enables thought.
Do you mean that creatures without language do not think, or that all creatures have language, or something else?
 
I think Mathematics is both "invented" and "discovered". Its basic rules were made up by humans, but we didn't know all the implications of those rules back then. It took the work of later mathematicians to find them.

The "unreasonable effectiveness" is a natural consequence of Mathematics being a logical construct dealing with quantity and measure.
 
I prefer to think of it as acknowledging that reality isn't simple. Are photons waves or particles? Turns out they're both.

I don't think they're both. I think our observations show them to have both wave-like and particle-like properties.

Shit gets weird down there...
 
Nevertheless, neither of the binary answers turned out to be correct.

No, I agree with that. The old assumption being that things at the very small are very like things at our usual level of functioning.
It always seems strange to me that it would ever be "elephants all the way down", but maybe that's down to a youth (and adulthood) spent playing too many videogames. It always seemed you would "get to the code" sooner or later.
 
Do you mean that creatures without language do not think, or that all creatures have language, or something else?
I would suggest that the answer to that question is complicated, because it depends what you mean by "think" as well as "language"

When it comes to humans, I'm following a social constructionist line of thought that "knowledge" doesn't exist free of context or history as just objective information. Instead, we understand reality through the way we categorise information, meaning that the way we represent the world is not a direct reflection of reality but is a product of the way we perform that categorisation or, to put it an other way, a product of discourse, since that categorisation arives through historical and cultural discourse and social interaction.

For humans, that discourse is clearly complex and, at the least, embedded within a spoken (and written and otherwise transmitted) language of words. This, in turn, leads to all kinds of ideas about what the "you" is when you think (for example that ideas are actually constructed by the process of forming the language used to express them and that internal thinking is merely a dialogue with somebody else, with the "somebody else" in this case being a projected version of you; many other theories are available).

However, this spoken language is not the only language we have the forms our discourse/social representation/categorisation/whatever other model you want to use to describe it. Modelled behaviour is another type of language, for example. Emotions comprise some kind of constructed language synthesised from embodied feelings and meaning through context. We can go increasingly deep from there. So if you're talking about "thoughts" beyond those raised in conscious awareness, such as the reaction by which "X has happened, so I now do Y", these kinds of non-verbal language will be a key element of the way we categorise reality.

It seems necessary at this point to note that these are ideas from mainstream academic thought and not things I have made up, but that all psychological ideas are contested and that by making these statements, I am not intending to imply them as unequivocal fact but, rather, a statement of position for the sake of argument. I mean, I would have assumed these things would be taken as a given as a result of the nature of the subject and the fact that this is a discussion board created for the purpose of discussing things. But, apparently, I have to explicitly identify them. So there, I have acknowledged it.

So then we come to animals, which, continuing in the spirit of openness, is an area I do not have any formal study in beyond the real basics (like conditioning). I do have the anecdotal experience of a lifetime with pets, however, and it certainly seems like they make decisions of a sort and have intentionality of another sort. My cat decided he will sleep on this bed an hour ago and will decide to sleep in that other bed later, but now it is the time to come and look for a cuddle. My dog is a collie, which means he is a neurotic mess of contradictory dopamine-fuelled decisions. My guess, however, is that they still can't have a direct, objective knowledge of the world but will still need to process reality via categorising it, which means they still need a language to make that categorisation. And they clearly have non-verbal language -- body language, emotions -- that enable them to do this. Off the top of my head, I would also suggest that the very existence of things like a conditioning process or superstition heuristic suggests prima facie evidence of this too. They have interpreted an experience and their categorisation of that knowledge makes them respond to future events on that basis rather than the direct reality as it really is. How are we to understand this interpretation of experience? I think it is a mediation through their particular type of language.

So, I have to turn the question round. The fact you asked it implies it is something on your mind as being relevant to the question of language and thought. What is your intepretation -- do animals lack language? Do they think? Is the latter related to the former?
 
I would suggest that the answer to that question is complicated, because it depends what you mean by "think" as well as "language"

When it comes to humans, I'm following a social constructionist line of thought that "knowledge" doesn't exist free of context or history as just objective information. Instead, we understand reality through the way we categorise information, meaning that the way we represent the world is not a direct reflection of reality but is a product of the way we perform that categorisation or, to put it an other way, a product of discourse, since that categorisation arives through historical and cultural discourse and social interaction.

For humans, that discourse is clearly complex and, at the least, embedded within a spoken (and written and otherwise transmitted) language of words. This, in turn, leads to all kinds of ideas about what the "you" is when you think (for example that ideas are actually constructed by the process of forming the language used to express them and that internal thinking is merely a dialogue with somebody else, with the "somebody else" in this case being a projected version of you; many other theories are available).

However, this spoken language is not the only language we have the forms our discourse/social representation/categorisation/whatever other model you want to use to describe it. Modelled behaviour is another type of language, for example. Emotions comprise some kind of constructed language synthesised from embodied feelings and meaning through context. We can go increasingly deep from there. So if you're talking about "thoughts" beyond those raised in conscious awareness, such as the reaction by which "X has happened, so I now do Y", these kinds of non-verbal language will be a key element of the way we categorise reality.

It seems necessary at this point to note that these are ideas from mainstream academic thought and not things I have made up, but that all psychological ideas are contested and that by making these statements, I am not intending to imply them as unequivocal fact but, rather, a statement of position for the sake of argument. I mean, I would have assumed these things would be taken as a given as a result of the nature of the subject and the fact that this is a discussion board created for the purpose of discussing things. But, apparently, I have to explicitly identify them. So there, I have acknowledged it.

So then we come to animals, which, continuing in the spirit of openness, is an area I do not have any formal study in beyond the real basics (like conditioning). I do have the anecdotal experience of a lifetime with pets, however, and it certainly seems like they make decisions of a sort and have intentionality of another sort. My cat decided he will sleep on this bed an hour ago and will decide to sleep in that other bed later, but now it is the time to come and look for a cuddle. My dog is a collie, which means he is a neurotic mess of contradictory dopamine-fuelled decisions. My guess, however, is that they still can't have a direct, objective knowledge of the world but will still need to process reality via categorising it, which means they still need a language to make that categorisation. And they clearly have non-verbal language -- body language, emotions -- that enable them to do this. Off the top of my head, I would also suggest that the very existence of things like a conditioning process or superstition heuristic suggests prima facie evidence of this too. They have interpreted an experience and their categorisation of that knowledge makes them respond to future events on that basis rather than the direct reality as it really is. How are we to understand this interpretation of experience? I think it is a mediation through their particular type of language.

So, I have to turn the question round. The fact you asked it implies it is something on your mind as being relevant to the question of language and thought. What is your intepretation -- do animals lack language? Do they think? Is the latter related to the former?
When you said "Languages are constructs but there is something in their construction that enables thought," my question was literally aiming to find out more about what you meant by language and by thought. As you say, it's complicated, and I wasn't sure if you were referring solely to human, oral or written languages, or a broader category of communication.

I don't have any special expertise in non-human animal cognition either, but completely agree that they have non-verbal language, mental states that vary non-randomly in line with their situation, can imagine future events and behave based on predictions. The stuff that humans do, too, but without the ability to build and expand on the representation of those things that writing allows.

In other words, I don't think that thought is predicated on human-style written language. (Not saying you do; from your post, it seems that you don't.)

I'm painting myself into a corner - that I think I'm ok with - in which thought = the ability to relate incoming stimuli to previous experience. Which is a very broad definition indeed, in that it probably includes plants.

Age is turning me into a fucking hippy, and I can definitely relate to your collie being a neurotic mess of contradictory dopamine-fuelled decision :D
 
I agree with Mation in that I can't really make sense of some of the social constructionist stuff.
Some of it makes perfect sense, such as how thought gets communicated and 'packaged' is going to affect a shared culture, and to a degree will influence the kinds of thoughts that are likely to follow from the current state, but I don't personally experience thoughts in anything like a language form - it's more that thoughts get translated into the language, and as with maths, or musical notation certain kinds of thoughts are more easily transcribed into some formats than others.
I regularly have thoughts that I can't transcribe into words. Very occasionally those are thoughts I can get closer to with a guitar. Often they aren't communicable at all.

I don't think that octopus that unscrewed part of its tank and escaped had any kind of language going on inside it, but it had thoughts.
 
I think maybe this is one of those many types of occasion where as humans, we have one label ("thoughts") to describe what is actually a multiplicity of phenomena. Phenomena that may, in reality, have little even to do with each other -- who knows? If I stop to consider it, I can draw qualitative boundaries around "thinking through how I feel about a situation", "thinking how I might solve a physical problem", "thinking how I might resolve an interpersonal problem", "thinking about dinner" and quite a lot of other types of thinking. Regardless of what different psychological models might say about it, some of them feel to me to be explicitly constructed through verbalised language and whilst others feel like they have nothing to do with verbalised language. So maybe the problem here is being too loose with what is meant by "thinking".

I'd say there's a related problem with emotions too, in which we readily accept umbrella labels for emotions that potentially have very different interpretations. I don't even just mean the obvious ones like the umbrella term "love", but also the experience of much more specified elements, like "the love a mother has for their child". There's a seminal anthropogical study of "mother's love" in the shanty towns of Brazil that reveals how even the emotions commonly considered to be universal are actually anything but. However, we talk about experiencing emotions as if we're all working off common reference points.
 
I failed badly at science at school, in large part because I was really good at English, History etc and there was that binary split between the sciences and the humanities. I knew I’d end up doing “the humanities” at some point so I felt less invested in “the sciences”.

But actually, I was interested and would probably have been good at them if encouraged. I followed biology with ease amd enthusiasm right up til we got to the heart, which then became a plumbing diagram and I fell behind. Much later, on learning that the heart is a spiral, I had a flashback to that moment in biology class when I stopped learning and I realised it was because the way the heart was understood and taught back then was absurdly limited and in some ways wrong. Something instinctive in me had gone “nope” and shut down.

Physics excited me and occupied my imagination but the nuts and bolts of it (the rules and equations) bored me rigid, in large part because I’m discalculic and really struggle with numbers. My teacher always said I was bright but didn’t apply myself. I was asking smart-arse questions about black holes and quantum weirdness but I didn’t see the point of knowing how bouancy works

Maths was a painful chore. I have come to realise that if I really concentrate and apply myself, by a combination of clumsy sums on paper, convoluted work with a calculator, crib notes to remind me of the formulae and the knowledge that others find it much less confusing then I do, I can work through arithmetic. But this was always going to get in the way of chemistry and physics, and wasn’t recognised at school, so I floundered.

Chemistry was like a glass castle I could never find my way into. I could see all these fascinating structures and shapes inside but because I couldn’t get inside the castle, I couldn’t walk around the structures and get any sense of perspective, context, how they related to one another etc. I got a risible 2% on my O level mock and was asked to drop the subject, which was a relief to all concerned. I did manage to cause a few contained explosions in the lab though, which increased my standing in the school.

Once I left school, I pretty much forgot about science altogether.

But then I started picking up copies of New Scientist and reading them cover to cover, and doing the “did you know.... listen to this...” stuff, and my boyfriend bought me a subscription, which I still have now (even though it’s not as good as it was).

And in my early forties I went to university to do a BSc. in health sciences. Having no science qualifications, I had to do the foundation course, which was essentially one year to bring me up to A level standard in maths physics biology and chemistry. I was scared, but very motivated and utterly committed. And I got top marks in all subjects.

I remember a conversation I had with the chemistry teacher, about half way through the first semester, that went something like this:

  • I feel as if I’m on the verge of understanding chemistry, as a topic and in the round, as a concept, but I realise I’m actually a long way off from that, and the more I learn the less I understand the bigger picture. I’m feeling quite lost.
  • What is it that would help you, do you think?
  • Not sure... I think I want to ask some particular questions about chemistry and how it works, and that might help me.
  • Okay, what are the questions you'd like to ask?
  • I don’t know! I think that’s the problem: I’m not even sure what questions to ask in order to get to the answer want.
  • Okay, well wait until the end of the course and I think you’ll have a better idea of the questions you need to be asking...

And then in the last week of the year, right before the final exams, towards the end of the lecture, he said “Sheila, do you now have a better idea of the questions you’d like to ask?” and I did, because he was such a good teacher. But I also realised that I am not a chemist by nature, despite finding it fascinating.

I can get a handle on it while studying it, and I got good results in exams and all my lab work was good. But I don’t understand it instinctively as I do with biology, and certainly not well enough to explain it to anyone else. I did have some wonderful “aha!” moments, especially with valency and molarity, really basic stuff which at least make me feel that I’m not completely illiterate in these fundamental areas.

I understand organic chemistry, and biochemistry enough to know things like how pH buffering works in the body, how plant compounds interact with human physiology etc. I think I have a competance here that is above average.

I know what sesqueterpines are and the physiological effects they have, shit like that. I do know enough chemistry to understand pharmacognosy and pharmacology. At least enough to know how to look stuff up and work through a paper.

When the BSc. started, right from the start I was looking forward to doing my dissertation. It was a research university and because it was an honours degree, we had to do original research. Other students were opting for surveys, qualitative studies etc. but I knew I wanted to do a lab based project, and I did. I was praised by the faculty for my synthesis, and I had to go to other universities to access equipment and expertise. It was really exciting, and I hope one day to be able to follow up on that as a post grad.

However, statistics is a stubborn blank for me, and I know it. I think that’s because of the discalcula. But at least I do know that I don’t have a great handle on statistics, so I have to seek out support, input, reliable sources for explanation and ask for help unravelling it all. Like, when I was deciding what treatment to accept for cancer, I looked at the stats and asked for help, and went back the oncologist and discussed it with him and he admitted that yes, the benefits were not as great as he had originally suggested. So I knew enough to question what he was saying, but not enough to work it out for myself; I knew enough to be able to pursue my queries and have a conversation, but only with support from other places.

Botany was easy for me because it was so interesting. Having a deep interest in plants, learning the names was just adding detail to my own observations. And the functions are so similar to physiological functions in biology that it was dead easy for me to get my head around how plants breathe and move nutrients around.

Ecology was so easy as to be boring. It was all so obvious and self evident, apart from the maths. I can’t think of a single “aha!” moment I had studying ecology. Perhaps because I’d had an excellent geography teacher at school, who had covered a lot of ecology in her lessons.

I had to pass exams in health sciences to the same level as a doctor, and I did really well. I now teach myself, at entry level and at university level, so I feel that a have a good understanding of those topics. And I love science enough to keep looking for new knowledge and keep pressing on with my leanring.

For my dissertation, I needed to use some higher maths,as well as a bunch of other stuff that necessitated deep study, and for the duration of that project I felt that my brain was working at some higher level. I neglected non-cerebral duties like eating, brushing my hair, housechores, and it was an extraordinary experience. My partner at that time would bring me a sarnie and a cuppa and leave them on my desk and I’d not notice. I went directly from desk to bed, fall into dreams of what I’d been working on, and immediately on waking I’d go back to my desk. I resented the time it took to go pee.

Afterwards I realised why fewer women than men get to work like this: not because we can’t or don’t want to, but because we don’t get supported by our partners to work exclusively on the project in the way that men do.

I love science, and I love study. I love the scientific endeavour, I think it’s one of our greatest human achievements. I think it’s as important to know about Faraday and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and the laws of thermodynamics and photosynthesis as it is to know about Shakespeare and events leading up to the worlds wars.

What I feel really uncomfortable with is the way science is often invoked as a kind of faith based belief system, employed to stymie discussion and debate. Science is about asking questions, and too often it’s used as a tool to shut down debate.

There are really important lacunae in our understanding (for instances,just for starters, as mentioned above, the problems with parallel lines... or wtf is going on with the double-slit experiment... the hard problem of consciousness... etc... but also at the more local level too) and I find it frustrating that there’s is this weird general belief that science knows everything.

All the real scientists I’ve ever encountered are filled with uncertainty, doubts, questions, curiosity... but I see a lot of stubborn insistence and certainty amongst those who stifle debate with declarations such as “the science tells us...science says... that’s not scientific...”


tl;dr
I love science, I’m good at some of it, poor at other bits. I don’t like it when people’s say “yeah but science” to shut down debate.
 
My science education.. did biology maths and chemistry to A level (to please a parent) and failed them all.
I really struggled with applied maths, whereas pure maths wasn’t so difficult.
Biology, I think I failed because I didn’t have the right skills or style to pass it. I have retained a lot of the information I learned.
Chemistry, I’m fine with basic stuff, but never was interested enough by the subject as a whole to engage with it.
I continue to have a mental block against all things physics. Eg electricity, rainbows, radio waves. No matter how many times someone tries to explain them to me I just don’t get it. Even people I like or share ideas with.
Science Fiction... Due to parent mentioned above, I read some in my teens. Probably mostly Arthur C Clark. I haven’t read any for the last 30+ years and have no interest in reading more.
Also all John Wyndham and that sort of thing.
 
It’s never occurred to me before that enjoyment or not of Sci-fi has any relationship with understanding science. Sci fi always strikes me as a joyless, overwhelmingly masculine genre where people live spartan existences in boiler suits. Often on spaceships or in bleak dystopian futures. All that leaves me entirely cold, but I like science reality, in a casually-informed way.
I agree with this. I did maths, further maths (both pure maths with mechanics) and physics for A-level, and an engineering degree.

In a way I wish statistics has been better taught.

I’m an engineer, so we generally follow laws and add statistical uncertainty at the end of the process. Social scientists are trying to remove the statistical uncertainty to determine the rules.
 
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