Science literacy: how confident are you?

[kabbes]

Yeah. I don’t want utopias either. I want recognisable, credible characters and societies. And soft furnishings and a range of individual clothing choices for all.

Back to the Future?

 

[spanglechick]

Back to the Future?

Heh. Well I guess.

 

[yield]

Yeah. I don’t want utopias either. I want recognisable, credible characters and societies. And soft furnishings and a range of individual clothing choices for all.

You'd probably News from Nowhere by William Morris. Published 1890

Back to the Future?

Very important now. In Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative? by Mark Fisher he believed that the future is closed.

I'd prefer to think that it's obscured and waiting for first light.

 

[8ball]

In Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative? by Mark Fisher he believed that the future is closed.

Very jolly.
Possibly correct.

 

[Leafster]

I did Physics, Chemistry and Biology O Levels and two different Maths O Levels. Then did Pure Maths, Physics and Chemistry A Levels. I also studied statistics as part of my degree and professional qualification. Along the way I have had a subscription to New Scientist for a while.

I am interested in most branches of science but admit to being very rusty on anything other than the basics. Do I think critically about science news items I read? I guess so.

I don't apply much of the knowledge I've acquired (and can still remember!) in my everyday life or work but I think there's enough still in my brain to be useful.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Me - I've always loved science fiction and have been engaged with weird and wonderful discoveries. However, I wouldn't have been able to evaluate what any potential problems might be with stuff I read in the press before I'd done some extensive, official study.
How well do you think the science education you had has served you? What and how have you learned stuff since school?
What do you do to judge how seriously you should take science news that might affect you or people or things you care about?
Would anything make it easier?
(I'm not currently doing sci-comms, but my English course learners seem to love it when I mention anything sciency, whilst also having a load of flat-earth/conspiracy-type beliefs. I know you lot don't have those latter, but I'd like to understand it better and am fishing for anything that helps.)

I am also a big fan of science fiction. I'm not super picky about hard vs soft sci-fi. I think I tend towards slightly harder sci-fi thought not by much. I'm fine with hand waving away FTL with something that sounds good. If you put a spin on it to make it different even better.

Spoiler: How the some series do it.

In the 'old man's war' series the FTL drive works by using the multiple worlds theory. The drive punches you through to an alternate universe which is essentially identical to your old universe except that your position is different. Strange as hell and opens up a bunch of questions about what happens to the you on the other side but it is at least novel.
I also liked Nathan Lowell's series on working on cargo ships in the future. It did have FTL but it only worked when your far away from the gravitation well of a star. This means cargo trips still take moths on end as even though the FTL stuff is superfast they still have to the beginning and end of the trip at sub c speeds.

I did well in GCSE science and started to do science A-Levels but found it wasn't working. I switched tracks computing so still applied science is guess.
Got a degree in it. Moved into teaching (did work on back end web development for a while but it was for a small college so I quickly stated on TA type stuff).
The stuff I learnt in school (or at home with my parents or watching informative tv shows) still give me mental tools that allow me to address things. Not in the whip out a bunsen burner kind of way but in the thought experiment kind of way.
It makes me try to thing though things. Try to imaging different scenarios to see how that might change things.
As an example of this happened to me when I walked passed some road laying and I wondered why they did the resurfacing in layers rather than in one go.
I started to think about factors such as heat loss (big piles would be solid on the outside but still viscous on the inside), structural integrity, ability to compress layers, etc.
I caught myself running through these things in my head and was mildly pleased that I was trying to come up with hypotheses and then mentally testing them.
My general thoughts on science news is to take it with a big dose of salt. Media outlets just have a terrible record with this kind of thing.
I don't actually remember the last time I really looked into any scientific news story. I generally sort of think 'that sounds intresting. will be intresting to see if it pans out'.
I mean with most of this stuff the reporting is looking at fresh stuff and I know that the best time to look at anything science related isn't now. it's normally in about 5 years when some other teams have replicated results and a bunch more papers on the subject have been published.
I guess some kind of meta analysis of major topic that broke these things down into nice charts and simple language points would be helpful. Might not actually be that far off when you look at AI developments.

 

[Mation]

I'm really loving reading all of your varied responses. Thank you

Didn't complete any of my GCSEs in secondary, science or otherwise. I got an E in Astronomy from a college in Llandudno, mainly because I absolutely suck at doing coursework. More recently I completed (and more importantly, passed) two short courses via the Open University, one of them focusing on cosmology and particle physics, the other focused on planetary science. I passed them both, despite the maths making me sweat, so I feel like I could do longer courses if I could get the funding sorted.

Similar. I failed my science GCSEs because I forgot to go to them. Genuinely. (I'd left home before I left school, and so didn't have parents around to remind me.)

Didn't do A Levels. But, doing and, yes, passing my BSc and MSc (a decade or so later) was hugely important to my sense of being able, despite my examiners literally laughing at my "terrible" equations in my master's thesis. (They gave me a distinction, cos the ideas, experimental design, and analyses were good.)

In adulthood I went to night school and learned something about statistics and experimental design. That has helped me think critically about science studies reported in the media.

The main limits to my understanding of science are having generally rudimentary maths skills and being reasonably but not highly intelligent. (I've met highly intelligent people and they do things like impatiently finish my sentences for me.)

Yes, yes, yes. It was studying stats and experimental design that gave me tools that I could apply more generally.

Digression: I briefly had a boyfriend who tried to complete almost all of my sentences. Only he was unerringly and bewilderingly wrong. Every fucking time. It cracked me up

Yeah. I don’t want utopias either. I want recognisable, credible characters and societies. And soft furnishings and a range of individual clothing choices for all.

Oh god, the utopias. People, each dressed in a single colour, smiling fixedly, and playing with gravity-defying orbs, whilst someone strums a lute

Re science fiction, you may well enjoy

Becky Chambers - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Mary Doria Russell - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

and possibly Sue Burke's

Semiosis (novel) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Granted, they do involve space, but not at all in a macho type of way. I found their stories beautiful. And as an added bonus for me, in searching for this, I've discovered that there's a sequel to Semiosis that I haven't yet read.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Oh god, the utopias. People, each dressed in a single colour, smiling fixedly, and playing with gravity-defying orbs, whilst someone strums a lute

Although I couldn't tell you what episode I can't help to feel that was a deliberate call out of a TNG episode. Actually I think that was at least 20% of insurrection too.
Isn't the big thing about utopias is that they inevitably end up not being a utopia?
Partly because writing about a place that doesn't have problems in not usually narratively company but also because the usual purpose of a utopia is to get us to think about some central aspect of the utopia?
Although I guess that depends on what you consider a utopia.

 

[Mation]

Although I couldn't tell you what episode I can't help to feel that was a deliberate call out of a TNG episode. Actually I think that was at least 20% of insurrection too.
Isn't the big thing about utopias is that they inevitably end up not being a utopia?
Partly because writing about a place that doesn't have problems in not usually narratively company but also because the usual purpose of a utopia is to get us to think about some central aspect of the utopia?
Although I guess that depends on what you consider a utopia.

Not a call out of TNG. A generic idea in my mind of 60s and 70s science fiction, possibly plus aspects of TNG, though I like it.

It wasn't a deeply held, political position on my part. Just an amusing mental image.

But you're right, utopias portrayed that way do tend to turn out to have some terrible flaw. Which probably is political.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Only meant the TNG thing as a joke. I too have a strong mental image of that. I immediately pictured it as a tng episode that re-used that one alien village set and gave everyone matching outfits.

Tell us more of this 'fashion police' of which you speak.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Only meant the TNG thing as a joke. I too have a strong mental image of that. I immediately pictured it as a tng episode that re-used that one alien village set and gave everyone matching outfits.

Tell us more of this 'fashion police' of which you speak.

Matching camel toes.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Matching camel toes.

Probably riker and tasha too given how tight the first season uniforms were.

 

[purenarcotic]

I did chemistry and biology at GCSE and Biology at A level. I was advised not to do Physics as I would struggle to get a top grade and was told the same for Chemistry at A Level. I did start to struggle with Biology, but that was more to do with being incredibly depressed I think. I enjoy sciencey things but I find it hard to take in information just by reading, even the popular science books. I need the words and pictures off documentaries. I haven’t watched any for a while. I don’t know anyone else into science IRL so there’s no point watching because I can’t discuss the concepts with others afterwards which is how I embed my learning. I would like to get into it more, but it’s now a real stretch for my brain as I’m just not using that part of it and I’m too lazy to push myself.

 

[Mation]

I did chemistry and biology at GCSE and Biology at A level. I was advised not to do Physics as I would struggle to get a top grade and was told the same for Chemistry at A Level. I did start to struggle with Biology, but that was more to do with being incredibly depressed I think. I enjoy sciencey things but I find it hard to take in information just by reading, even the popular science books. I need the words and pictures off documentaries. I haven’t watched any for a while. I don’t know anyone else into science IRL so there’s no point watching because I can’t discuss the concepts with others afterwards which is how I embed my learning. I would like to get into it more, but it’s now a real stretch for my brain as I’m just not using that part of it and I’m too lazy to push myself.

You're not lazy. You have other priorities!

(I loathe the word.)

 

[weltweit]

I struggle with some of the charts being shared about Covid-19, sometimes I ask but mainly I just can't see what they are portraying and why it might be significant. I expect sometimes if someone explains I might have a eureka moment but some of the charts just look so alien I am not sure even with an explanation I am going to get it.

 

[Doodler]

Yes, yes, yes. It was studying stats and experimental design that gave me tools that I could apply more generally.

Digression: I briefly had a boyfriend who tried to complete almost all of my sentences. Only he was unerringly and bewilderingly wrong. Every fucking time. It cracked me up

Are you an Old Birkbeckian too? Was taught some classes there by Anne Richards, she was very good on stats. Re. completing sentences, noted the word 'briefly'

 

[Mation]

Are you an Old Birkbeckian too? Was taught some classes there by Anne Richards, she was very good on stats.

No - I wouldn't have been able to work plus do the degree. It was long before my ADHD diagnosis and consequent meds. Loan + supportive partner meant I could study full time. It was heavenly. (Not the loan part. Still not paid it off, more than 2 decades later. Still coming out of my pay each month. Cunts.)

Re. completing sentences, noted the word 'briefly'

Yeah

I struggle with some of the charts being shared about Covid-19, sometimes I ask but mainly I just can't see what they are portraying and why it might be significant. I expect sometimes if someone explains I might have a eureka moment but some of the charts just look so alien I am not sure even with an explanation I am going to get it.

I struggle with them sometimes, too.

It may sound unrelated, but enlarging them as much as possible can often help with the first problem, of seeing what they're portraying. For me at least, it really helps to just be able to read the axis labels and scale markers and title without having to squint and hold them in mind. Takes a chunk of cognitive load off, if you can read them easily.

What most charts that appear in the media are missing is a properly descriptive caption, immediately below the chart. Instead, you often have to find the details in the text of an article, whereas in a journal article, you'll get both. It reinforces what the chart shows, as well (ideally) as taking a step further towards showing why it's worth looking at.

Knowing the relationship between the type of chart and what kind of data it represents may help, too. For example, that a line chart shows (or should show) how the same measure varies at different points along a continuous scale (e.g. number of cases the day before yesterday, yesterday and today; or average height for children aged 1, 2, 3... 10, etc). Whereas a bar chart should show discrete data (meaning they compare things that don't depend on each other). How many Pfizer vaccines were dispensed in February, compared to how many AstraZenica? There's no straightforward reason why either number should affect the other, so this would be better as a bar chart.

(If that's not clear, or is super obvious, the fault is mine. A muddle of me not knowing what people know.)

 

[weltweit]

I only earlier today learnt the difference between a bar chart and a histogram.

Don't ask me to explain it

 

[Orang Utan]

I just don’t find them either interesting or understandable so I avoid them.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I passed my Physics O level with the lowest possible pass mark. All because the night before I did the one small bit of revision that I ever did, how the eye works. That question was in the exam, and voila! Coincidentally Mrs K had the same question, but hers was in her biology O level instead. Aren't exams just the best ever way to ascertain a person's knowledge, intelligence, and luck.?

 

[Mation]

I just don’t find them either interesting or understandable so I avoid them.

If people don't understand something, it hasn't been explained well-enough/in the right way.

It's hard to find that kind of confusion interesting, ime.

 

[Mation]

I only earlier today learnt the difference between a bar chart and a histogram.

Don't ask me to explain it

Most people don't know that. Good on you!

 

[felixthecat]

Science in general fascinates me. And its the stuff I don't understand I find most fascinating. For example my job is fixing humans. So biology, chemistry and physics all play a part but I'm particularly interested in chronic pain - simply because everything about it blows my tiny mind.

And arithmetic is a branch of mathematics, like geometry or algebra.

 

[DotCommunist]

I enjoy reading about the sciences, predicted well for gcse but came out double d. I think sci fi taught me more about astronomy over the years. Maths always lets me down so I can't do equations etc. I dimly remember doing them all those years ago so I must have been able to do basics once. Maths didn't capture my continued attention through adulthood as other subjects. Always interested in the history of sciences as well, finding out about Avicenna and the like

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

predicted well for gcse but came out double d.

I think I have that science book.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Matching camel toes.

I believe the term for fellas is "moose knuckle"

 

[girasol]

I was a big Asimov fan as a teenager, read most of his books I think. But I was shit at Physics and Chemistry in school - very good at Biology and ok at Maths.

Then when I was 23 I had to do an access course for my Computer Science degree and did very well at Physics, thank you very much (It was A/S level, though, rather than full A'Level) - I did very well at Maths too, but started to struggle when it got to further Maths, too abstract for me. I was a good Computer Science student, does it count ? (Some areas of CS are very closely related to Philosophy, in the way of reasoning/problem solving, as there's a lot of logic involved - one of the programmers I worked with had studied Philosophy at Uni). Contrary to popular belief you don't need to be that good at complicated Maths, and not all good Maths people make good programmers. I had to help a friend, who was much much better atMaths than I was, with her programming module, as she couldn't get her head around the logic/syntax. Forgot the point I was trying to make

 

[SpookyFrank]

Thinking about it I actually get tested on my science literacy on a daily basis at the moment. By professional educators and by teenagers, who are far more exacting.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I was a big Asimov fan as a teenager, read most of his books I think. But I was shit at Physics and Chemistry in school - very good at Biology and ok at Maths.

Then when I was 23 I had to do an access course for my Computer Science degree and did very well at Physics, thank you very much (It was A/S level, though, rather than full A'Level) - I did very well at Maths too, but started to struggle when it got to further Maths, too abstract for me. I was a good Computer Science student, does it count ? (Some areas of CS are very closely related to Philosophy, in the way of reasoning/problem solving, as there's a lot of logic involved - one of the programmers I worked with had studied Philosophy at Uni). Contrary to popular belief you don't need to be that good at complicated Maths, and not all good Maths people make good programmers. I had to help a friend, who was much much better than Maths than I was, with her programming module, as she couldn't get her head around the logic/syntax. Forgot the point I was trying to make

I remember having that conversation with a us border agent who was quizzing me about my status of being a computing student.

Maths and programming both use logic and the manipulation of variables. If you are good or bad at something like algebra it is a reasonable indicator of your suitability at something like programming.

I think programming is sometimes more about working with information whereas maths can often be pure data. Both involve the interpretation of data though.

I like aspects of programming as it's like doing a crossword and a sudoku while also playing the game mousetrap.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I like aspects of programming as it's like doing a crossword and a sudoku while also playing the game mousetrap.

I find database design most like crosswords its all about human activity and objects are interrelated.
I find the number crunching and manipulation like sudoku.
I find creating sql queries and programing functions or objects then tying them all together then building on that framework to build even more like playing an epic game of mousetrap mixed with the blue sky possibilities of some thing like legs.