Rosemary Byrne charged with perjury in Sheridan case

[Udo Erasmus]

I suspect the fact that the Socialist Worker has spectacularly failed to rally to Sheridan's defense given recent events suggest that the SWP leadership don't genuinely believe that Sheridan is an innocent man.

These events leave a bad taste in your mouth, I was something of a fan of Tommy Sheridan and admired people like Rosie Kane too.

 

[danny la rouge]

I think he is someone who has devoted his life to the cause.

Sadly, he did achieve much, but has now shown he can't be trusted under pressure: he'll sell you out as soon as his back is against the wall. He'll squirm and wriggle and dump all around him in the shit.

This means if I am on a demo or action and he is involved, I can't trust him. I have been involved in many of the same struggles as Tommy over the years, so this isn't some hypothetical issue. But now I discover his idea of "Solidarity" is to denounce Alan McCombs - a man who went to prison in an attempt to keep Tommy's confidentiality - as a liar and "scum". Tommy's idea of "Solidarity" is to drag the sex life of Katrine Trolle through the courts, calling her a liar. A woman who as an SSP activist had done nothing but become involved with Tommy. She hadn't sold her story, but Tommy made sure her she was called on oath. Again and again he betrayed trust and privacy following this disastrous course of action. He betrayed his comrades and his party. He is - and this is no idle phrase - a class traitor.

So that's the practicalities: whatever he achieved in the past is undone. He can't be trusted, end of story.

 

[danny la rouge]

These events leave a bad taste in your mouth

They certainly do.

 

[JHE]

Gail & Gail's dad charged

THE wife and father-in-law of former Scottish Socialist Party leader Tommy Sheridan were yesterday charged with perjury in connection with his defamation case against the News of the World.

Gail Sheridan, 44, and Angus Healy, 71, were charged after being questioned for hours at a police station in Edinburgh.​

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Sheridan39s-wife-Gail-charged-with.3794165.jp

 

[Fullyplumped]

Police revealed that on Sunday they had charged a 59-year-old woman in connection with the same investigation and that is understood to be former Socialist Party executive member Pat Smith. Last week, two other party activists, Jock Penman, 58, and Graham McIver, 39, were charged, as was former Socialist MSP Rosemary Byrne, 59.

So by last night the "Sheridan Seven" were all charged and it will now be up to the Crown Office to decide on a prosecution strategy. But Mr Sheridan was in no doubt that the case amounted to a witch-hunt against him and his friends and relatives at the behest of the Murdoch newspaper empire.​

The Sheridan Seven - sounds catchy.

 

[Poi E]

Eloquent.

No, she said "thick".

Well, looks like the combined forces of NOTW, the state security apparatus and probably Prince Phillip are out to get him and his family.

 

[Cobbles]

But Mr Sheridan was in no doubt that the case amounted to a witch-hunt against him and his friends and relatives at the behest of the Murdoch newspaper empire.​

​

Apparently he also believes that there are pixies at the bottom of his garden and that he is guided by voices that come out of the ether........

 

[cockneyrebel]

what are you suggesting then? That every libel trial is followed by a perjury trial? A civil case should be followed by a criminal one?

Just a question, how comes anyone found guilty who pleaded not guilty isn't charged with perjury?

 

[Poi E]

Just a question, how comes anyone found guilty who pleaded not guilty isn't charged with perjury?

Being found guilty doesn't necessarily mean that you were lying under oath. Just that the judge or jury doesn't believe you.

 

[Jamsy]

it does happen sometimes. tis extremely rare though because it serves no purpose as the judge takes it into account (the fact he pled guility) when passing sentence.

More common but still quite rare, is defence witnesses being charged.

But the general rule is that those that are defending the case are very unlikely to be charged for perjury when they lose their case. It is very likely that the complainant or person bringing the case will get done if they are seen to be fibbing.

Coppers of course, are a different kettle of trout altogether.

 

[danny la rouge]

To answer cockneyrebel's query: It should be remembered that the reason the Sheridan predicament differs from someone facing a criminal charge pleading not guilty when they are, is that Sheridan wasn't charged with anything, it was he who brought a defamation case, seeking damages.

In the first instance, it is a person saying "it wasnae me". In the second instance, it is someone using the courts to obtain damages they aren't entitled to.

 

[Jamsy]

I thought that's what i said.

 

[danny la rouge]

I put it better, though.

 

[Frostys Lodger]

And who wont be in court ?.

The 'lie and defy' idiots of the scottish swp and cwi who saw the Sheridan debacle as an opportunity to settle scores with those that had prevented them taking over the SSP and appearing to be rrrrevolutionary whilst doing so.

Taafe directed Sheridans strategy at the notorious may 06 NC. The swp cheerled at every possibility.

If Sheridan is found guilty, they are just as guilty, their guilt will be bigger as they knew what they were dealing with and were prepared to wreck the only viable left of labour party that these islands have produced in a generation in pursuit of their sectarian ends.

Cunts the lot of them.

 

[gurrier]

Ohh someone twisting what I said, that's new.

Anyway...this is the politics forum, so I figure I'm OK by saying my considerations are political. You might want the philosophy section.

It's a straight up quote from you. You are claiming that your position has nothing to do with the morality of the situation - and that you won't even consider the morality. That is to say, precisely, that your politics are entirely independent of a moral dimension. You make your mind up, without even considering whether something is moral, amoral or imoral - that is political sociopathy.

It's also totally deluding yourself by the way. I assume that you actually think that loyalty to whatever you define as a socialist politics is a higher moral imperative than anything else (which itself is a position which sees socialist politics as having no moral dimension).

In short, it's an abhorrent, horrid machiavallian attitude to the world which marks you out as somebody who nobody could trust in any way (since you would excuse any act, no matter how low, if you felt that you were loyal to the socialist movement).

Scumbag.

 

[gurrier]

The precedent of a defamation case being followed by a perjury trial in Scots law.

Dumb-ass argument. If somebody was to, say, leap out of the witness stand during a defamation trial and murder a lawyer, there would surely follow a murder case - you would hardly think the lack of a precise precedent important.

 

[DexterTCN]

It's a straight up quote from you. You are claiming that your position has nothing to do with the morality of the situation - and that you won't even consider the morality. That is to say, precisely, that your politics are entirely independent of a moral dimension. You make your mind up, without even considering whether something is moral, amoral or imoral - that is political sociopathy.

It's also totally deluding yourself by the way. I assume that you actually think that loyalty to whatever you define as a socialist politics is a higher moral imperative than anything else (which itself is a position which sees socialist politics as having no moral dimension).

In short, it's an abhorrent, horrid machiavallian attitude to the world which marks you out as somebody who nobody could trust in any way (since you would excuse any act, no matter how low, if you felt that you were loyal to the socialist movement).

Scumbag.

Who you calling a scumbag?

My position has been honourable and unchanging since before the libel trial started. I've explained it, and my reasons for it, very clearly so that anyone who took an interest could say where I stood whether they agree or not.

However, as usual, you lot don't let me down with the personal abuse. Sitting on your high horses it's so much easier for you all to see. I'm sure.

Hope Sheridan wins...if it ever goes to trial.

 

[Jamsy]

I don't care if he wins or not. I just want him to disappear. He's a red neck.

 

[gurrier]

Who you calling a scumbag?

My position has been honourable and unchanging since before the libel trial started. I've explained it, and my reasons for it, very clearly so that anyone who took an interest could say where I stood whether they agree or not.

You are assuming that an unchanging position in light of new information is automatically honourable. In reality a position that refuses to change in light of new information is just unthinking.

A scumbag is somebody who acts without consideration of morality. To actually boast about this is sociopathic.

 

[Geri]

Apparently Gail Sheridan has been suspended from her job. Police "won't comment" on suggestions that alcoholic miniatures were found at their home, according to Radio 5.

 

[danny la rouge]

alcoholic miniatures were found at their home,

maybe it was a Miniature AA meeting.

"My name's Happy, and I'm ..."

 

[urbanrevolt]

That probably would have been construed as contempt of court....

Thankfully, some of them had enough integrity to tell the truth.

They were clearly put in a very difficult- perhaps impossibly difficult position. However, telling the 'truth' (I put it in inverted commas because the 'truth' here is contested and unless you actually saw the alleged acts you know no more than me and also no one should care- as long as there as no abuse in any sense which no one has alleged) - well what does it mean?

It means saying I don't know I wasn't there. Did TS say something to you about this? Not that I can recollect. That is true and certainly can't be proved tpo be false.

However, we should all move on I think and see how best we can revitalise the left both in Scotland and anywhere else we're active.

 

[danny la rouge]

Did TS say something to you about this? Not that I can recollect. That is true and certainly can't be proved tpo be false.

It could and would be proved to be false: the meeting at which Tommy had said it was minuted (as I hope all effectively disciplinary meetings are - for the protection of all). When Tommy filed the defamation proceedings, the NotW solicitors called in all relevant paperwork. As could have been predicted. Alan McCombs refused to hand the minutes over, and went to jail for his efforts. But Tommy demanded at a special party meeting that they be handed over.

 

[JHE]

There is further confirmation today that the News of the Screws' salacious reporting of famous people's sex lives is politically motivated persecution of socialist militants. The News of the Screws has published pages of sexual gossip about that well-know militant socialist, the retired flunky Paul Burrell.

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/2402_burrell_a.shtml

 

[sevenstars]

I understand why some people in the SSP have a problem with Sheridan. I living far away can't judge the truth of the allegations against him, but I think that we should recognise that whatever he may or may not have done in recent years, he is someone who has helped in the past to further the cause of socialism and someone whom many poor and working class people as seen as someone who speaks up for them. He might or might not have a fatal flaw, but I think he is someone who has devoted his life to the cause.

He's seen as someone now who devotes himself to his own cause.

A bit like Derek Hatton, though the analogy with Jeffrey Archer is maybe more fitting.

 

[Frostys Lodger]

Sheridan has degenerated from the central leader of the anti poll tax struggle in the early nineties to a self seeking publicist who opens his radio programme with 'I'm the king of the swingers'.

His allies were out and about in Glasgow and elsewhere at the weekend petitioning against the 'persecution' of the Sheridans.

Solidarity is what many always thought, little more then a Sheridan support group.

 

[Jografer]

Just a question, how comes anyone found guilty who pleaded not guilty isn't charged with perjury?

If you hold your hands up early, then you'll get a lighter sentance...

 

[jenjen]

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/sc...dan-s-mobile-to-swingers-club-78057-20329890/

Police 'Trace Tommy Sheridan's Mobile To Swingers Club'

Feb 24 2008 Exclusive by Steve Smith

DETECTIVES claim they have traced Tommy Sheridan's mobile phone to a swingers' club that he denies visiting.

They have used "cell site analysis" to plot the phone to the vicinity of Cupids sex club at the time he was allegedly there, a source said yesterday.

The police source added: "The police strongly believe they have enough evidence to prove his phone was traced to a location in Manchester at the time in question."

 

[danny la rouge]

What a surprise.

 

[jenjen]

TOMMY and Gail Sheridan will stand side by side in the dock for the first time next week.

The former Scottish Socialist Party leader and his air stewardess wife will appear in private on March 27 at Edinburgh Sheriff Court to answer perjury charges.

They are accused of lying under oath at Sheridan's sex-and-drugs defamation lawsuit against the News Of The World.

The ex-MSP won a £200,000 defamation payout but has not received a penny pending the paper's appeal.

Police launched a perjury probe after judge Lord Turnbull said someone in the case must have lied.

That probe cost more than £1million and resulted in seven people being charged.

Last night, negotiations were taking place between legal representatives for Tommy, 43, and Gail, 44, and the Crown Office over how the couple will arrive at court.

A source close to the Sheridan family said: "Given the way the police have handled affairs so far, there are concerns they'll mount an over-the-top dawn raid on the family home to take them to Edinburgh for the hearing.

"The matter can be handled with dignity."

The others charged with perjury, who will not appear in court next week, are Gail's father Gus Healy, 71, and four members of Sheridan's new Solidarity party - Rosemary Byrne, Graham McIver, Pat Smith and Jock Penman.

In addition to the perjury charge, Gail is fighting to save her job as a senior member of British Airways cabin crew.

During a raid on her home in December, police removed 150 miniature bottles of booze. BA suspended her pending an inquiry, which is continuing.

Gail says the bottles are part of a collection bought for her by family and friends.

http://tinylink.com/?FHqTceOxrZ