Roger Waters self indulgent twat / not self indulgent twat

[redcogs]

Because he’s hard to be charitable about. He doesn’t carry himself well. He’s arrogant, he’s crass and he’s just not a likeable person. And he says racist things and does dubious shit on stage that fuel these things, like dressing up in Naziesque costumes and employing empty sloganeering like Rik off of The Young Ones. A juvenile intellect, a monstrous ego and just an odious plank in all respects.
But apparently his impossible-to-fathom ‘talent’ and membership of one of the most overrated bands ever gets him a pass for all that.

you dont care for him then? All the equivocation confuses. And i cant see how anything on your list of criticisms (some of which have already been conceded) explains the push to label him racist really.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Because he’s hard to be charitable about. He doesn’t carry himself well. He’s arrogant, he’s crass and he’s just not a likeable person. And he says racist things and does dubious shit on stage that fuel these things, like dressing up in Naziesque costumes and employing empty sloganeering like Rik off of The Young Ones. A juvenile intellect, a monstrous ego and just an odious plank in all respects.
But apparently his impossible-to-fathom ‘talent’ and membership of one of the most overrated bands ever gets him a pass for all that.

You were slagging off the Sleafords Mods recently, having previously praised them, so your bar for what's acceptable appears to be based simply on your margins of what you find cool.

 

[Orang Utan]

You were slagging off the Sleafords Mods recently, having previously praised them, so your bar for what's acceptable appears to be based simply on your margins of what you find cool.

Your reasoning is non-existent

 

[Dystopiary]

you dont care for him then? All the equivocation confuses. And i cant see how anything on your list of criticisms (some of which have already been conceded) explains the push to label him racist really.

I believe Norman Stachel.

 

[redcogs]

sorry dystopiary - i dont know Norman or his reputation. Was he a Pink Floyd member?

 

[redcogs]

i did a duckduck search without any result. Maybe help me solve the mystery?

 

[Orang Utan]

i did a duckduck search without any result. Maybe help me solve the mystery?

Norbert Statchel

 

[danny la rouge]

Also mentioned earlier in the thread:

Roger Waters Is ‘Antisemitic to Rotten Core,’ Says Former Pink Floyd Lyricist Polly Samson — and Her Husband, David Gilmour, Emphatically Agrees

Roger Waters is 'antisemitic to his rotten core,' onetime Pink Floyd lyricist Polly Samson said — and her husband, David Gilmour, emphatically agreed.

variety.com

 

[Dystopiary]

sorry dystopiary - i dont know Norman or his reputation. Was he a Pink Floyd member?

He's the musician in the documentary who worked with RW - said he was antisemitic in front of him and towards him on a number of occasions.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

does dubious shit on stage that fuel these things, like dressing up in Naziesque costumes

This is a silly criticism. He dresses up in Naziesque costumes when he's taking on a Naziesque character on stage. Key word here is 'stage'. He's performing and his point isn't 'aren't the Nazis cool'!

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Maybe he is. But there's longstanding beef between them.

 

[Dystopiary]

Norbert Statchel

Yes, thank you - I got his name wrong! My bad.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

This is a silly criticism. He dresses up in Naziesque costumes when he's taking on a Naziesque character on stage. Key word here is 'stage'. He's performing and his point isn't 'aren't the Nazis cool'!

His father got killed in the second world war. The whole of The Wall stems from that.

 

[danny la rouge]

sorry dystopiary - i dont know Norman or his reputation. Was he a Pink Floyd member?

It’s also in the thread:

“Norbert Stachel, Waters’ former saxophonist, alleged several instances where he said Waters displayed anti-Jewish sentiment. He claimed Waters lost his temper on tour in Lebanon after a succession of vegetarian dishes were produced at a restaurant and demanded that waiters “take away the Jew food”.”

Roger Waters accused of repeated antisemitism in new documentary

Investigation interviews those who claim to have heard several derogatory references to Jews

www.theguardian.com

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It is pretty stupid to be using the Star of David in any context at all that can be misconstrued though.

 

[Orang Utan]

This is a silly criticism. He dresses up in Naziesque costumes when he's taking on a Naziesque character on stage. Key word here is 'stage'. He's performing and his point isn't 'aren't the Nazis cool'!

You’ve missed the point. I am not alleging he is a Nazi.

 

[Orang Utan]

He's the musician in the documentary who worked with RW - said he was antisemitic in front of him and towards him on a number of occasions.

 

[Wilf]

Because he’s hard to be charitable about. He doesn’t carry himself well. He’s arrogant, he’s crass and he’s just not a likeable person. And he says racist things and does dubious shit on stage that fuel these things, like dressing up in Naziesque costumes and employing empty sloganeering like Rik off of The Young Ones. A juvenile intellect, a monstrous ego and just an odious plank in all respects.
But apparently his impossible-to-fathom ‘talent’ and membership of one of the most overrated bands ever gets him a pass for all that.

Exactly this. It shouldn't be difficult to hold left/anticolonialist/Pro Palestinian views without tipping over into antisemitism. In fact the antisemitism devalues that politics. And, Redcogs, its not about who is accusing him, its about what he actually says and does.

 

[Orang Utan]

It is pretty stupid to be using the Star of David in any context at all that can be misconstrued though.

Indicative of his juvenile intellect and crass stagecraft and posturing

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You’ve missed the point. I am not alleging he is a Nazi.

You specifically mentioned 'dresses in Naziesque costumes' as an example of doing 'dubious shit'.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Indicative of his juvenile intellect and crass stagecraft and posturing

fair-ish.

 

[Orang Utan]

It seems that liking his music blinds people to his thorough unpleasantness as a human being

 

[Orang Utan]

You specifically mentioned 'dresses in Naziesque costumes' as an example of doing 'dubious shit'.

Yes, it is dubious shit

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Indicative of his juvenile intellect and crass stagecraft and posturing

If the Star of David was on the same pig as symbols for Islam and Christianity, then he's doing a fuck you to all three main branches of Abrahamic religion. You saying performers shouldn't do that?

 

[redcogs]

It is pretty stupid to be using the Star of David in any context at all that can be misconstrued though.

Certainly in the modern era. Back a decade or two things were different, 'The Past is another country' type kick?

 

[danny la rouge]

Also, and I can’t stress this highly enough:

Crimes against humanity.

 

[Orang Utan]

If the Star of David was on the same pig as symbols for Islam and Christianity, then he's doing a fuck you to all three main branches of Abrahamic religion. You saying performers shouldn't do that?

Will you stop putting words into my mouth and wilfully misinterpreting me

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, it is dubious shit

No, it isn't. The Geldof character in The Wall ends up in Naziesque costume as he disintegrates. It's been a long-standing theme with Waters. And it absolutely is not dubious. You can think it's shit if you like, but if you think it's dubious, you misunderstand it.

I'm not denying that Waters says dodgy shit. He's said a lot of nonsense recently about Putin and Russia. His politics are shit. But you are seeing dubiousness when it isn't there.

 

[Orang Utan]

Also, and I can’t stress this highly enough:

Crimes against humanity.

That great gig in the sky needs firing into the sun

 

[belboid]

It seems that liking his music blinds people to his thorough unpleasantness as a human being

I think his musics mostly shit. But that’s not a reason to accept everything he’s accused of.