Roger Waters self indulgent twat / not self indulgent twat

[redcogs]

What you wrote was a blanket denigration of those who at least appreciate aspects of what Waters is about. Describing an entire group of people as "thick" is prejudice blinkered nonsense of course, so dont expect to parade this type of approach (to a simple cultural difference of perspective) without it being noticed (or challenged) OU.

 

[RD2003]

I’m talking about this very black and white blinkeredness that interprets me criticising Waters for his Nazi uniform stage antics means I think he was espousing their ideology. That’s some adolescent shite. Much like Waters’ politics and posturing

It also seems a bit adolescent to take something out of context merely in order to be offended by it. Or whatever it is you think you're doing-it's a bit unclear.

I'm not a particular fan of RW . As I said above I know none of his post-PF output. You, on the other hand, seem borderline obsessed. If he's so bad in every way, maybe you could post up for contrast, a list of, say, your own political achievements, as well as some links to the obviously superior music you've created.

 

[Wilf]

I’m talking about this very black and white blinkeredness that interprets me criticising Waters for his Nazi uniform stage antics means I think he was espousing their ideology. That’s some adolescent shite. Much like Waters’ politics and posturing

Indeed. The Wall was, what, best part of 40 years ago? Insisting on still wearing ithat garb is at best tin eared and adolescent.

 

[Orang Utan]

It also seems a bit adolescent to take something out of context merely in order to be offended by it. Or whatever it is you think you're doing-it's a bit unclear.

I'm not a particular fan of RW . As I said above I know none of his post-PF output. You, on the other hand, seem borderline obsessed. If he's so bad in every way, maybe you could post up for contrast, a list of, say, your own political achievements, as well as some links to the obviously superior music you've created.

Borderline obsessed lol. I’m just sporadically responding to a subscribed thread - this takes a matter of seconds
I’m neither a politician nor a musician (much like Waters as it happens) but that does not forbid me from expressing a legitimate opinion on a public wally like Waters

 

[redcogs]

Indeed. The Wall was, what, best part of 40 years ago? Insisting on still wearing ithat garb is at best tin eared and adolescent.

40 years is a testament to the longevity - and quite obviously to the imaginative creativity of the work. i would accept the point that over such a long span of time cultural mores had had every opportunity to shift significantly and some reassessment may be necessary to avoid any jarring offensiveness. But there is also the fan base to consider ? Dyed in the wool Waters appreciators will likely want to see/hear stuff as close to the original as possible. There is an entire industry of ancient rock and rollers who make a healthy living out of doing similar. But with political music i recognise there's a balance to be struck. i have never heard Waters live, so i cant say whether he manages to achieve that or not. However in the interest of artistic integrity the central thrust of what Waters is saying needs to be retained. Otherwise plenty people on here and elsewhere would be piling in with accusation of selling out and sanitising.

 

[Orang Utan]

‘Political music’ lol

 

[Orang Utan]

“Hey, teacher, leave those kids alone…”

 

[redcogs]

People of Waters' age and generation were beaten black and blue at school by bullying arseholes who operated within a culture designed to allow it. Do try and develop some insight before shooting off.

 

[Orang Utan]

People of Waters' age and generation were beaten black and blue at school by bullying arseholes who operated within a culture designed to allow it. Do try and develop some insight before shooting off.

again, you’re missing the point.
I’m not criticising his experiences, just his shit and crass adolescent drivel

 

[redcogs]

Seriously OU, you think i'm missing the point? Where you hear "shit crass adolescent drivel" i hear a voice which speaks to my own experience of school, a place where we were routinely beaten and mauled by sadistic fucks who, having humiliatingly streamed you into the dunce column then continued to put you down by displaying no interest in encouragment, let alone by showing kindness and a help up when it was needed. Of course there were plenty exceptions, but when you are on the wrong end of an adult fist, and you are a frightened 5 years old, believe me it was a type of liberation to listen to someone like Waters (and others) who at least showed some semblance of understanding and anger about something that badly needed changing. The point here is being badly missed, but not by me.

 

[Yossarian]

Borderline obsessed lol. I’m just sporadically responding to a subscribed thread - this takes a matter of seconds
I’m neither a politician nor a musician (much like Waters as it happens) but that does not forbid me from expressing a legitimate opinion on a public wally like Waters

I can't remember the last time I heard the "You don't like their music? Well I don't see you making better music" response to an artist being criticised, think I might have still been in school

 

[Wilf]

It also seems a bit adolescent to take something out of context merely in order to be offended by it. Or whatever it is you think you're doing-it's a bit unclear.

I'm not a particular fan of RW . As I said above I know none of his post-PF output. You, on the other hand, seem borderline obsessed. If he's so bad in every way, maybe you could post up for contrast, a list of, say, your own political achievements, as well as some links to the obviously superior music you've created.

'I'm not sure I like that shopping centre they've built... SHUT UP TILL YOU'VE GOT SOME MAJOR CONSTUCTION PROJECTS UNDER YOUR BELT!'

 

[Wilf]

40 years is a testament to the longevity - and quite obviously to the imaginative creativity of the work. i would accept the point that over such a long span of time cultural mores had had every opportunity to shift significantly and some reassessment may be necessary to avoid any jarring offensiveness. But there is also the fan base to consider ? Dyed in the wool Waters appreciators will likely want to see/hear stuff as close to the original as possible. There is an entire industry of ancient rock and rollers who make a healthy living out of doing similar. But with political music i recognise there's a balance to be struck. i have never heard Waters live, so i cant say whether he manages to achieve that or not. However in the interest of artistic integrity the central thrust of what Waters is saying needs to be retained. Otherwise plenty people on here and elsewhere would be piling in with accusation of selling out and sanitising.

To be honest, I'm not convinced he'll be accused of selling out if he tones down the neo-Nazi cosplay.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Indeed. The Wall was, what, best part of 40 years ago? Insisting on still wearing ithat garb is at best tin eared and adolescent.

Bollocks. He hasn't made anything better than that since, so he keeps doing it. Like loads and loads and loads of musicians and bands. Bloody Rolling Stones, always playing those old songs. Not Sympathy for the Devil again.

Sorry but there are so many valid criticisms to lay at his feet that singling this out is absurd.

 

[Wilf]

Bollocks. He hasn't made anything better than that since, so he keeps doing it. Like loads and loads and loads of musicians and bands. Bloody Rolling Stones, always playing those old songs. Not Sympathy for the Devil again.

Sorry but there are so many valid criticisms to lay at his feet that singling this out is absurd.

I've no problem with him doing the album after all this time. I'm of an age where a lot of bands I see are reliving their heyday of 40 years ago. I just think with the concerns expressed about it, he could do it without the dressing up bit. If it needs saying, I don't think he's fash, I think he's just a dick with a rather juvenile approach to politics.

 

[Orang Utan]

Bollocks. He hasn't made anything better than that since, so he keeps doing it. Like loads and loads and loads of musicians and bands. Bloody Rolling Stones, always playing those old songs. Not Sympathy for the Devil again.

Sorry but there are so many valid criticisms to lay at his feet that singling this out is absurd.

I think that’s a valid criticism. Sometimes it’s time to stop, especially after 40 years! People do run out of ideas, that’s when it’s time to retire.

 

[Orang Utan]

Don’t people get bored of the same old shit over and over again? The fans AND the musicians? Imagine being a one hit wonder and playing the same song over and over again. Dunno how they do it without going mad.

 

[Wilf]

Don’t people get bored of the same old shit over and over again? The fans AND the musicians? Imagine being a one hit wonder and playing the same song over and over again. Dunno how they do it without going mad.

I go to quite a few punk gigs of bands that started in the first or 2nd wave. Given the musicianship of their early work was a bit 'basic', I sometimes wonder how it is for musicians who have improved over the years having to go back to their 3 chord wonders of 1978.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There's nothing new about the idea of developing one show and basically keeping it more or less the same for decades. That's exactly what the old music hall acts did. They had an act, which they performed year after year.

If that's what he likes doing and it's popular with the punters (which it undoubtedly is), who are we to criticise? You don't have to go.

 

[belboid]

There's nothing new about the idea of developing one show and basically keeping it more or less the same for decades. That's exactly what the old music hall acts did. They had an act, which they performed year after year.

If that's what he likes doing and it's popular with the punters (which it undoubtedly is), who are we to criticise? You don't have to go.

Stomp is still going, innit?

 

[Orang Utan]

There's nothing new about the idea of developing one show and basically keeping it more or less the same for decades. That's exactly what the old music hall acts did. They had an act, which they performed year after year.

If that's what he likes doing and it's popular with the punters (which it undoubtedly is), who are we to criticise? You don't have to go.

Cos that’s what we are wont to do, especially with music.

 

[Orang Utan]

Stomp is still going, innit?

I doubt they still have the same cast! Doing that every night for years would indeed send people crazy!

 

[Elpenor]

I think I’d pay to see a vaudeville show done to the music of Roger Waters

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I’m talking about this very black and white blinkeredness that interprets me criticising Waters for his Nazi uniform stage antics means I think he was espousing their ideology. That’s some adolescent shite. Much like Waters’ politics and posturing

Why are you going on about it? It’s probably the least worst thing about him that he hates Nazis and has dedicated a double vinyl album to it.

 

[krtek a houby]

I doubt they still have the same cast! Doing that every night for years would indeed send people crazy!

There's several Stomp troupes, afaik and the routines are tweaked and changed up plenty of times over the years.

 

[Orang Utan]

Why are you going on about it? It’s probably the least worst thing about him that he hates Nazis and has dedicated a double vinyl album to it.

Have I said that him hating Nazis is bad?

 

[hash tag]

Don’t people get bored of the same old shit over and over again? The fans AND the musicians? Imagine being a one hit wonder and playing the same song over and over again. Dunno how they do it without going mad.

If people got bored with it, why do the continue to buy the work of Mozart, Beethoven or even the Beatles and still pay to go and see the music played. Do you really only listen to pieces of music once and never again. Sure I have bits I have only listened to once, but there are many pieces I've played to death.

Stomp is still going, innit?

I bet the mousetrap has been going longer

 

[Orang Utan]

If people got bored with it, why do the continue to buy the work of Mozart, Beethoven or even the Beatles and still pay to go and see the music played. Do you really only listen to pieces of music once and never again. Sure I have bits I have only listened to once, but there are many pieces I've played to death.

Most stuff, yes. I enjoy discovery over repetition and nostalgia

 

[hash tag]

Most stuff, yes. I enjoy discovery over repetition and nostalgia

It's good to mix it.

 

[Orang Utan]

It's good to mix it.

Oh yes, but I get a feeling many just listen to what they liked when they were 17 and never get beyond that, which is a tragedy