Reporter and cameraman shot dead during live TV interview in Virginia
- Thread starter pesh
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weltweit
Well-Known Member
And the USA, loads of people have guns and they kill each other, 88 a day!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh. i think dwyer's been rather cavalier about the ground he has chosen to defend and finds himself on a sticky wicket.
gosub
~#
well, they have gun ownership levels twice that of Switzerland.
looking at the stats isn't really a causal linkage between ownership and homicide. Latin and Central Americas lots of gun deaths
The evidence suggests that is due to factors other than gun ownership. Arguments against legal gun ownership are based on emotion, not on the evidence. For instance:
New York State: gun ownership: 4.7%, gun murders per 100,000: 2.7
Colorado: gun ownership: 34.7%, gun murders per 100,000: 1.3
Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
gosub
~#
so why have you been spouting bollocks about how benefical it is to have loads of people wandering around with machine guns
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
how much gun crime is it in fact deterring? e2a: because you're not comparing like to like. what's the population of colorado, for example, and where are they - rural / urban? much more hunting i would think in colorado than in new york.
but the main thing is the right to bear arms wasn't a constitutional amendment because it would deter gun crime but to prevent an overweening and arbitrary government, to allow the people to form militias. i don't see much evidence of a citizen militia in the united states formed to prevent rights being abridged: militias in the usa seem to be more lunatick right wingers than anything else.
so why have you been spouting bollocks about how benefical it is to have loads of people wandering around with machine guns
I've argued in favor of legal gun ownership because, based on the evidence, it deters crime. The evidence on this is irrefutable, both nationally and internationally.
As you see from the example I just posted, Colorado has eight times as many legal gun owners per capita than New York State, and half as many gun murders.
gosub
~#
No, no it isn't. The evidence is that it's probably not even a statistically significant correlation.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I think that oddity is more likely to be because in NY state there are a lot of people in close proximity AND guns, whereas in Colorado distances are greater, population is smaller and more of the legal guns will be hunting rifles.
Pure speculation. The figures indicate that the more guns are legally owned, the less gun crime will result. That is also common sense.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there are about 928,250 gun owners in new york; there are about 1,858,500 in colorado (pop ny 19.75m, pop colorado 5.356m); there are about twice as many gun owners in colorado than new york.
Just as I said.
gosub
~#
NO. ITS BOLLOCKS.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no it isn't. the reasons the guns are owned will play a great role. if people in new york, for instance, own them for protection then they are more likely to be used on other people. if they are in colorado more likely to be owned for shooting animals they are less likely to be used on people. stands to reason, which your claim doesn't.
The evidence suggests otherwise.
Iowa: gun owners 42.9%, gun murders per 100,000: 0.7
Florida: gun owners 24.3%, gun murders per 100,000: 3.9
You can speculate all you want about the reasons for this, but the evidence clearly shows that the more guns are legally owned, the lower is the rate of gun crime. I think public policy should be based on evidence, not speculation. Still less emotion--which, let's face it, informs most of the anti-gun rhetoric.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
twice as many. not eight times as many - so you're wrong when you say
gosub
~#
The EVIDENCE, the Statistical evidence that I PROVIDED, AND YOU IGNORED (coz you and PM were too busy spouting bollocks) SAYS THERE IS NO CONNECTION. you can stick your anecdotal evidence back up your arse.
So you don't understand the term per capita.
I'm afraid it's impossible to conduct a rational argument with one as ignorant as yourself.
As I pointed out earlier, emotion rather than evidence informs most of the anti-gun rhetoric we hear.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you did not use the term per capita when saying there were eight times as many gun owners in colorado. it's in any case impossible to conduct a rational argument with you because nine times out of ten you insist on bringing god into it and the tenth time you defend a position which is demonstrably bollocks for no good reason, as you do here.
What's the point in lying when the evidence is there for all to see?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
so if you're ignoring the statistical evidence that can only be because your case is informed by emotion rather than evidence.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
my mistake
i rushed over that as you do when you're in fact supposed to be doing something else you're being paid for.however, people in america were not given the right to legally own guns to prevent gun crime (and btw murders are by no means the only sort of gun crime) but to form militias.
Well I think we're almost done here. You're not capable of defending your position, and I feel slightly bad about rubbing it in. Not so bad however, that I won't provide one more piece of evidence to prove my point:
California: gun owners 21.3%, gun murders per 100,000: 3.4
Minnesota: gun owners 41.7%, gun murders per 100,000: 1.0
And so we see, as we might have expected, that the higher the rate of legal gun ownership, the lower the rate of gun crime. QED.
Supine
Newt Member
Not common sense as I know it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
in what percentage of these murders was a) a gun in possession of both parties; b) a legally held weapon the murder weapon; in addition, in how many misdemeanours and felonies which were not murders were legally held weapons used, either brandished or shot?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
common sense in fact most uncommon.
gosub
~#
Probably coz they get fed up dealing with clueless fuckwits.
If gun ownership adds to gun crime, US would have one of highest gun crime figures. They don't.
If gun ownership deters crime they would have one of the lowest. They don't.
If they were in any way related England would be as body strew as Honduras, it isn't. thank fuck.
There is more of a correlation between average temperature and gun crime than there is between gun ownership and gun crime.
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