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Religion to become extinct, says model of census data

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hiraethified
This is interesting stuff. Looks like the Czechs are the least religious of the lot, but I'd imagine they'd get a completely different result in some other countries though.

A study using census data from nine countries shows that religion there is set for extinction, say researchers.

The data reflect a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation.

The team's mathematical model attempts to account for the interplay between the number of religious respondents and the social motives behind being one.

The result, reported at the American Physical Society meeting in Dallas, US, indicates that religion will all but die out altogether in those countries.

Nonlinear dynamics is invoked to explain a wide range of physical phenomena in which a number of factors play a part.

One of the team, Daniel Abrams of Northwestern University, put forth a similar model in 2003 to put a numerical basis behind the decline of lesser-spoken world languages.

At its heart is the competition between speakers of different languages, and the "utility" of speaking one instead of another.

"The idea is pretty simple," said Richard Wiener of the Research Corporation for Science Advancement.

"It posits that social groups that have more members are going to be more attractive to join, and it posits that social groups have a social status or utility," he told BBC News.

"For example in languages, there can be greater utility or status in speaking Spanish instead of [the dying language] Quechuan in Peru, and similarly there's some kind of status or utility in being a member of a religion or not."

The team took census data stretching back as far as a century from countries in which the census queried religious affiliation: Australia, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland.

Some of the census data the team used date from the 19th century
"In a large number of modern secular democracies, there's been a trend that folk are identifying themselves as non-affiliated with religion; in the Netherlands the number was 40%, and the highest we saw was in the Czech Republic, where the number was 60%," Dr Wiener said.

The team then applied their nonlinear dynamics model, adjusting parameters for the relative social and utilitarian merits of membership of the "non-religious" category.

They found, in a study published online, that those parameters were similar across all the countries studied, suggesting that similar behaviour drives the mathematics in all of them.

And in all the countries, the indications were that religion was headed toward extinction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197
 
I thought the Czechs were all firm adherents of Orthodox Christianity. This must be a blow for the bearded dress wearers.
 
Did it take into account the rise of Islam in places like Netherlands though?
Do you think that the 'rise of Islam in places like Netherlands' is faster than the amount of people now declaring themselves to be non-affiliated with religion, then?
 
I dunno, but while I see fundamentalist christian and moslem churches, tv channels, schools and 'community leaders' springing up across London I imagine Amsterdam and Rotterdam wouldn't be too different. Would you?
 
Of those nine countries in the study, Czech is unique in that the majority of the population was brought up under state atheism.
 
Ok, not coffee shops.

I worry about the buildings future of course but the big question is what to do with all the idiots inside them?
Also the books, there has to be a good use for all that wasted paper surely?
The wine will go quickly :)
 
Not read the study yet but do we have a time-line? Everyone knows it is going but it would be nice to know when. Some people might make life changing decisions based on the current stupidity of the world. At the moment a lot of people must think 'what is the point in trying' when looking at the level of fuckwittery and retardation of the species organised religion brings.

One BBC article said that two-thirds of people do not regard themselves as "religious" which is promising. Seeing that the thought is Cro-Magnons started religion about 40,000 years ago does this mean we still have thousands more irritating years to unravel the mess and get on with life?
 
However I also read an article in the newsletter of my old uni saying that religion was going to be on the rise because of the demographics - religious people have more children.
 
Interesting paper, the model looks at minority/majority social group mechanics using a a measure of "utility" which is what attracts members of one group to another. The utility they assume as a constant, which is a pretty restrictive assumption though but its wouldn't be too difficult to implement other functions tbh. New age eco-fundamentalists and end-of-the-worlders may swing the (perceived) utility of religion... :s

If the data was available, the pro and anti mubarak factions in Egypt would be an interesting study, the movement from a minority anti-mubarak group (that was organised and active), a spike in their "utility" caused by Tunisia/Food prices/other factors and the the shift to a larger dominant group.
 
As the end of the world (in some people's minds) beckons, I imagine just as many people will turn toward religion as desert it.
 
Not read the study yet but do we have a time-line? Everyone knows it is going but it would be nice to know when. Some people might make life changing decisions based on the current stupidity of the world. At the moment a lot of people must think 'what is the point in trying' when looking at the level of fuckwittery and retardation of the species organised religion brings.

One BBC article said that two-thirds of people do not regard themselves as "religious" which is promising. Seeing that the thought is Cro-Magnons started religion about 40,000 years ago does this mean we still have thousands more irritating years to unravel the mess and get on with life?

yes.

actually everyone doesn't know it's going, just the opposite, it's pretty obvious that a ready made belief system is something that's quite attractive to people the world over. Pentecostalism has gone from zero to half a billion people worldwide in a century, maybe it just hasn't really got going in CZ
 
People have always worshiped something though,whether it be the Sun,Moon or loads of imaginary sky Gods,can't see it changing tbh,be nice to think what with all our scientific discoveries and our understanding of how the universe was formed we'd move away from sky pixies and such nonsense but sadly some still need the comfort blanket of religion.
 
Hmmm & hmmm.

I wonder if any of the researchers involved in this have got odds on their prediction, or would be prepared to back them with cold, hard cash? For me that's a good sign that someone stands by their research.

It's crystal-ball gazing using stats at the end of the day - may as well call up Psychic TV and ask someone on there.
 
Mind you, the fundies breed more.

However due to the fundie ways, a certain percentage of their children become militant atheists or staunch secularists and reject what their parents stood for as soon as they are able to embrace mainstream society.
 
This is just a thought, but could the rise of conspiracy theories about the illuminati, belief in aliens, UFOs, etc be like a modern day "replacment" for religion? I remember studying something in sociology ages ago along similar lines but referring to new age spirituality etc.

Also, are there any new "superstitions" that have developed in the last 100 years? We dont have the equivalent of "dont let a black cat cross your path" for things like telephones and computers as far as I know :hmm:
 
What it implies is that mainstream religious hierarchical organisations are in deep shit. However I would claim they generally have bugger all to do with religion anyway.
 
This is just a thought, but could the rise of conspiracy theories about the illuminati, belief in aliens, UFOs, etc be like a modern day "replacment" for religion? I remember studying something in sociology ages ago along similar lines but referring to new age spirituality etc.
Aren't the same people who believe in alien abduction in the US also the ones who come from rural religious areas? Angels and aliens and so on.
 
This link explains why the British Humanist Association are urging non-religious people to indicate on the census that they have "no religion", because there is a belief that people are ticking "Christian" if that is how they were brought up, even if they don't have any religious beliefs, and that this is skewing the data.
 
This is just a thought, but could the rise of conspiracy theories about the illuminati, belief in aliens, UFOs, etc be like a modern day "replacment" for religion? I remember studying something in sociology ages ago along similar lines but referring to new age spirituality etc.

Also, are there any new "superstitions" that have developed in the last 100 years? We dont have the equivalent of "dont let a black cat cross your path" for things like telephones and computers as far as I know :hmm:

That's a good idea, but i'm not sure.

The 'god' believed in by the conspiracy theorist would be a supremely evil one.
 
They used the classic predator-prey non-linear differential model on... religion? :facepalm:

This is total funding-orientated PR babble. Their assumptions have no a priori validity. They've just made a lot of stuff up, bunged it through the model one would normally use to study animal populations and then gone to the press.
 
Oh yes, here we go. At the end of the article, carefully cropped from the OP:

However, he told BBC News that he thought it was "a suggestive result".

"It's interesting that a fairly simple model captures the data, and if those simple ideas are correct, it suggests where this might be going.

"Obviously much more complicated things are going on with any one individual, but maybe a lot of that averages out."

I.e., "Er, we know this is bullshit. Don't hate us too much, people who understand what we have done."
 
The validity of their approach depends on how well they capture the data. I would not dismiss it without seeing the figures.

There's loads of work out there centred around predicting large-scale behaviour of human beings using mathematical models originally formulated for biology or physics.
 
The validity of their approach depends on how well they capture the data. I would not dismiss it without seeing the figures.
It just has the smell of a PR stunt. They even almost admit as much at the end of the article!

There's loads of work out there centred around predicting large-scale behaviour of human beings using mathematical models originally formulated for biology or physics.
You're telling me?

Yeah, there is. And you have to be really careful how you do it too. And, in particular, you have to be *really really* careful if you are going to try to project or extrapolate from it rather than just understand dependencies and results from within the historic parameter set.

What they're doing here is taking a simple model of a really complex system (the whole of religion!) and projecting it forward way beyond currently observed phenomena. I mean, come on.
 
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