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Release Lockerbie bomber Abdelbasset Ali al-Megrahi or not?

release al-Megrahi from prison or not?

  • al-Megrahi should die in a Scottish prison serving his sentence

    Votes: 61 37.4%
  • Transfer al-Megrahi to a Libyan jail to continue his sentence at home

    Votes: 19 11.7%
  • Release al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds

    Votes: 83 50.9%

  • Total voters
    163
Actually, I missed this. He wasn't effectively pardoned. He was released as part of standard practice in Scottish law whereby terminally ill prisoners are allowed home to die. You're sounding like a Sun leader writer. :confused:

Apologies.

This case winds me up however. I really don't see why he couldn't see out his sentence as the rest of us would if found guilty of a similar crime. It strikes me as nuts and the most obvious 'plot for oil' since Powell submitted his evidence to the UN.
 
The government, both English and Scottish released him for oil and gas.

Why all the debate, if he did it or not, too late now...... there is money to be made.

Unless we start a revolution nothing is going to change.... I doubt many u75's really want a change. It would have happened already!!!
 
I'm not as credulous as you. I don't believe in someone's guilt simply because they have been convicted. If the evidence is there for me to look at myself, I'll look at it and reach my own conclusion. In this case, that is what I've done, and this conviction utterly stinks. He's almost certainly innocent, and if he is indeed guilty, the trial did not prove so.

His 'innocence' is not the issue. He was found guilty. Sorry, but your opinion matters even less than the victims' families. He shouldn't have been released. Why were the other 9 not? MikeMcc, get on that. Wikipedia for a start.
 
Apologies.

This case winds me up however. I really don't see why he couldn't see out his sentence as the rest of us would if found guilty of a similar crime.
Again, not true. In the past, I believe, ten years something like 25 terminally ill prisoners have been released before the end of their sentence to return home to die. You may not like the policy. I, for one, do.
 
His 'innocence' is not the issue. He was found guilty. Sorry, but your opinion matters even less than the victims' families. He shouldn't have been released. Why were the other 9 not? MikeMcc, get on that. Wikipedia for a start.
You're all over the place here. You'd have been happier if an innocent man had been left to die in prison? At the very least, I see this as a far from perfect end that is less bad than the alternatives given that he was not going to receive a fair trial in his lifetime.
 
Peter Mandelson was on the BBC news today saying that there is no link between the release of al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds and any Libyan oil business for British companies.
 
His 'innocence' is not the issue. He was found guilty. Sorry, but your opinion matters even less than the victims' families. He shouldn't have been released. Why were the other 9 not? MikeMcc, get on that. Wikipedia for a start.
Why on earth should I? It's your point, research and present the evidence yourself. I'm not here to research your arguement. You are just blindly ignoring the links that are presented to you.

Have you been taking trolling lessons from Jazzz, this is just his style too.
 
So, you don'ta really trust the Mandelshonnnn one ...

If there was a deal I hate to think about what it was .. Libya to London, we want al-Megrahi released and in exchange you can have oil rights .. London to Scotland, we want al-Megrahi released on compassionate grounds and in exchange we offer .. .what ... what exactly does London have which Scotland wants ...

Unless you think the deal was direct, Libya to Edinburgh.
 
Again, not true. In the past, I believe, ten years something like 25 terminally ill prisoners have been released before the end of their sentence to return home to die. You may not like the policy. I, for one, do.

Me, too. And I'd like to wish Mr al Megrahi a happy ramadan with all his family back in Libya. :)
 
So, you don'ta really trust the Mandelshonnnn one ...

If there was a deal I hate to think about what it was .. Libya to London, we want al-Megrahi released and in exchange you can have oil rights .. London to Scotland, we want al-Megrahi released on compassionate grounds and in exchange we offer .. .what ... what exactly does London have which Scotland wants ...

Unless you think the deal was direct, Libya to Edinburgh.
Or... US to UK, we don't want the truth coming out in an appeal, get him to drop the appeal and ship him back to Libya smartish. [This assumes that the UK wasn't also complicit in the initial perversion of justice, and for that matter Libya.]
 
- should make anyone say "er what? Is that it? That's not right".
That's not an unusual situation with a circumstantial case. People are conditioned to expecting absolute proof like fingerprints and DNA and CCTV. Not all cases are like that. And you cannot get a proper grip of a circumstantial case, especially in a complex investigation like this, on the basis of media reports.
 
That's not an unusual situation with a circumstantial case. People are conditioned to expecting absolute proof like fingerprints and DNA and CCTV. Not all cases are like that. And you cannot get a proper grip of a circumstantial case, especially in a complex investigation like this, on the basis of media reports.

Except that this case looks even worse the more you look into the evidence provided, the situation, the investigation, everything - and there is pretty detailed information available at this stage.
 
I think he should have been kept in prison, to die in a prison hospital with humane care. But never released. What's the betting he'll do a Saunders? :rolleyes:

To see that cunt Gadaffi welcoming him home like a hero outraged me. :mad:
 
Except that this case looks even worse the more you look into the evidence provided, the situation, the investigation, everything - and there is pretty detailed information available at this stage.
I don't take issue with that - there are a lot of very serious issues with specific pieces of the evidence ... but I do not think that the full circumstantial case has been clearly set out in the public domain and I was simply pointing out that saying the evidence is "piss poor" is sometimes a function of people being conditioned to expect "proof" in forms that frequently do not exist (you commonly see on here people saying "you cannot prove that" when all that is needed to prove something is evidence on oath by a witness of what they saw or heard ... providing the jury believe them as compared to the defendant).
 
I was simply pointing out that saying the evidence is "piss poor" is sometimes a function of people being conditioned to expect "proof" in forms that frequently do not exist (you commonly see on here people saying "you cannot prove that" when all that is needed to prove something is evidence on oath by a witness of what they saw or heard ... providing the jury believe them as compared to the defendant).
Maybe. There is evidence that some of the testimony was at the very least unsafe, though, in fact some of it was totally worthless.

I wonder, in fact, what percentage of injustice is meeted out as a result of what you say – that, in the end, it often comes down to the respective credibility of the witnesses/defendants. Given that most people use really quite poor heuristics to judge the believability of another, I would worry a great deal about that. A subject for another thread perhaps.
 
Apparently (bbc) the boss of the FBI has written to the Scottish justice minister saying that this release is a travesty of justice.

The Scottish minister has apparently written back.

Will the UK/US special relationship survive?
 
Apparently (bbc) the boss of the FBI has written to the Scottish justice minister saying that this release is a travesty of justice.

The Scottish minister has apparently written back.

Will the UK/US special relationship survive?
The boss of the FBI really has no business writing such a letter.
 
I don't take issue with that - there are a lot of very serious issues with specific pieces of the evidence ... but I do not think that the full circumstantial case has been clearly set out in the public domain and I was simply pointing out that saying the evidence is "piss poor" is sometimes a function of people being conditioned to expect "proof" in forms that frequently do not exist (you commonly see on here people saying "you cannot prove that" when all that is needed to prove something is evidence on oath by a witness of what they saw or heard ... providing the jury believe them as compared to the defendant).

Mm. I think in this case that the extent of the circumstantial case really *has* been made public by now - not least because of the efforts of lawyers and journalists over the years in this really quite old case - and it remains appalling.
 
What really ticks me off is the media coverage. A few days ago the BBC invited Jim Swire on to give a families of the victims POV and he made a very strong case for al-Megrahi's release, and concentrated on the simple fact that whilst his appeal remains unheard the families continue to have unanswered questions. It took the interviewer a while to understand what Swire was saying since it clearly wasn't what he expected. The interview was immediately followed by the anchor questioning al-Megrahi's lawyer and asking how his release would satisfy the families of the victims. Despite having just heard one of them stating that two wrongs don't make a right.

It's a case where the facts are completely submerged in media hysteria and over simplification, and I'm disappointed there's no option in the poll to have a whole bunch of journalists condemned to spend the rest of their lives in a Libyan jail.

In my world, when people have suffered a tragic loss you don't use their grief for political gain, you don't use it to stir up hatred and controversy against their wishes, and you don't claim they think and feel anything other than what they say themselves.
 
Apparently (bbc) the boss of the FBI has written to the Scottish justice minister saying that this release is a travesty of justice.

The Scottish minister has apparently written back.

Will the UK/US special relationship survive?

"Special relationship", my arse :D

Pleased to see the majority vote is the same as mine. Surely, even if no compassion is felt for him, some can be felt for his family? I can't imagine how it must feel, having your loved one dying in a prison cell thousands of miles away.

(btw, having compassion for one party does not mean having no compassion for other parties...)
 
I don't take issue with that - there are a lot of very serious issues with specific pieces of the evidence ... but I do not think that the full circumstantial case has been clearly set out in the public domain and I was simply pointing out that saying the evidence is "piss poor" is sometimes a function of people being conditioned to expect "proof" in forms that frequently do not exist (you commonly see on here people saying "you cannot prove that" when all that is needed to prove something is evidence on oath by a witness of what they saw or heard ... providing the jury believe them as compared to the defendant).
Except in this case it wasn't in front of a jury and the judges weren't aware of the direction and reward given to the star witness, Tony Gauci. Even the leading judge from the original trial refered to him as unreliable! He was found to have a picture of al-Megrahi prior to the ID parade, a parade where he was the only person of a middle-eastern appearance and where the rest of the line up were significantly younger. The judges weren't made aware of reports from the FBI and the CIA that contradicted the alleged plot. Three of the key expert witnesses have since been discredited.

Given what we know now it does seem that the evidence presented falls somewhat short of the standard of proving the case beyond reasonable doubt.
 
What is the difference between al-Megrahi getting prostate cancer and Myra Hindley or Ian Bradey or Ian Huntley or Rosa West dying of old age.
Pragmatically, death from terminal illness is more predictable than general old age. But I agree there's little moral difference, if any, which is one of the many reasons why I think murderers should be hanged instead of being banged up until they die.

If we don't have capital punishment, we have to give up the degree of retribution that goes with it, instead of trying to replicate it with gaol time. Life isn't as simple as a judge's sentence. Those words must have a purpose, or they're just words. I continue to see no reason why terminally ill people should be forced to die in gaol.

The various folk devils you list are unlikely to be released, true, although they're not held under Scots law, so different rules apply. This is however an argument for making things better, not worse.
 
The US should remember that it was their own blowing the fuck up of the Iranian plane that caused this in the first place and maybe that should be getting that little query put to them instead of them doing all the shouting at others.

This public insulting is far too much. They didn't have any complaints about the justice system when it went their way.
 
The US should remember that it was their own blowing the fuck up of the Iranian plane that caused this in the first place and maybe that should be getting that little query put to them instead of them doing all the shouting at others.

This public insulting is far too much. They didn't have any complaints about the justice system when it went their way.

Quite.
 
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