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Rape, sexual assault and harassment in the entertainment industry

Yuwipi Woman said:
For actors, I'm not finding a lot of these people's shock and disgust particularly convincing. No one's getting an Oscar for this performance.
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The next question I suppose is why? Why did people who knew about the behaviour of this fat, greasy and unprepossessing turd keep schtum?
 
Sasaferrato said:
The next question I suppose is why? Why did people who knew about the behaviour of this fat, greasy and unprepossessing turd keep schtum?
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You mean, "how did the wealthy, charismatic, powerful bully manage to get away with it?"

The answer's in the Question I think.
 
8den said:
You mean, "how did the wealthy, charismatic, powerful bully manage to get away with it?"

The answer's in the Question I think.
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Fuck. :(

He must have expected it though, surely he couldn't be so thick, that he thought no one would ever report him?

I find the whole thing quite sordid, OK, film industry, didn't expect saints. It's a hard game, and huge fortunes can be lost. You expect rivalry from all the other companies, that is the norm.

I don't think I've ever seen someone dismantled so fast... wife gone, fired, Harvey Weinstein stripped of BFI Fellowship. Stripped of BFI Fellowship, stripped of Harvey Weinstein Stripped of Academy Membership Academy Membership and his honorary CBE is at risk.
 
Sasaferrato said:
Fuck. :(

He must have expected it though, surely he couldn't be so thick, that he thought no one would ever report him?
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He was quite literally above the Law. Back in 2000 I was told, by a former Miramax PA, that he'd managed to have several statutory rape charge suppressed.

I actually think the scale and level of his abuse helped to protect him. If you were someone abused by Weinstein, and you told your friends, i'm sure you'd immediately hear about a litany of other equally or much more famous people he'd also abused and you'd ask yourself "if he's gotten away with abusing all them, what chance do I have to speak up". That's before you consider that many of the actresses etc were beholden to him and his company.

I find the whole thing quite sordid, OK, film industry, didn't expect saints. It's a hard game, and huge fortunes can be lost. You expect rivalry from all the other companies, that is the norm.
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Weinstein has been compared to Saville on this thread. Saville and King got away with decades of abuse and compared to Harvey Weinstein they were sideshow entertainers.

I don't think people understand how important Miramax was. Without Miramax and the Weinsteins the 2nd new wave of American cinema would mostly likely not have happened. The Sundance brat generation, (Kevin Smith, Tarantino, Rodgriuez etc) may not have had careers without him.

Just Look at the films Miramax in the 1990s

List of Miramax films - Wikipedia


Madonna, Krzysztof Kieślowski, Mingella, The Cohen Brothers, Tom Stoppard, Beat Takeshi, Terry Gillian, David Lynch, to the fucking Pokemon movie.

Weinstein was everywhere.



I don't think I've ever seen someone dismantled so fast... wife gone, fired, Harvey Weinstein stripped of BFI Fellowship. Stripped of BFI Fellowship, stripped of Harvey Weinstein Stripped of Academy Membership Academy Membership and his honorary CBE is at risk.
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No one is bothering to wait. Everyone knew, but everyone needed someone to speak out publically. Lesson learnt, I hope.
 
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8den said:
No one is bothering to wait. Everyone knew, but everyone needed someone to speak out publically. Lesson learnt, I hope.
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I think Hollywood was quick to disown him when it became too difficult to ignore.

As you mentioned, Miramax produced many films that were very successful. His reputation as someone who made money for the industry was far more important to them than his reputation as a sexual predator.

I'm sure there are many more people in the industry who behave as badly as Weinstein, they're just not in all the papers, publicly undermining Hollywood. As a result, nothing will be done about the underlying problem. It will be business as usual until the next major scandal.
 
fishfinger said:
I think Hollywood was quick to disown him when it became too difficult to ignore.
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I think its a just a tad more complicated than that. Are you going to walk away from someone (very powerful, and dangerous) based on rumours and speculation, and maybe your own experience is that you've seen he's bully, but he's married and very influential with women filmmakers and women's rights groups (and politics in general.

As you mentioned, Miramax produced many films that were very successful. His reputation as someone who made money for the industry was far more important to them than his reputation as a sexual predator.
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Well yeah, part of the problem is eventually it became impossible to ignore. But this kind of sexual predator is active in every walk of life, and everyone has to be more vocal and not turn a blind eye.

I'm sure there are many more people in the industry who behave as badly as Weinstein, they're just not in all the papers, publicly undermining Hollywood
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Nope. I think Weinstein was in many regards like Saville, the worst of his breed. Theres other filmakers with unsavoury reputations both public (Polanski) and private, but no one had the reputation of Weinstein.

. As a result, nothing will be done about the underlying problem. It will be business as usual until the next major scandal.
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I hope not. And it doesn't look that way.

Amazon Studios head resigns in sex scandal

https://jezebel.com/amber-tamblyn-on-charlyne-yis-accusations-against-her-h-1819708168

both this week.
 
8den said:
Look, you may be right, I hope not, but time will tell.
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I hope I'm wrong too.

What we are seeing with #metoo is Women are standing up, in part because high profile Women are coming forward.

We've already seen two high profile journalists lose their jobs over it

VICE Severs Ties With Journalist Accused Of Sexual Harassment And Assault
GQ has fired its political correspondent following online allegations
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This is all good news but will this lead to really tackling the underlying issue of patriarchy?
 
Giles Coren's column today has made me furious. Equates misjudged flirting with Weinstein's crimes. Claims putting kisses at the end of an email could send him to jail. Utter cunt.

A few days ago a woman called Melanie emailed from The Times to ask me to write an article about something or other. I never much fancy extra work but the deadline was a way off and it was only short and she was new to the paper, so I wrote back: “Yes, of course, I’d be happy to do a piece.” And then I wrote:

“xx

Giles


And then I went to hit “send”. But as my finger hovered over the key, I found myself looking down at those x’s in a way I have never looked at x’s before.

And I wondered suddenly why I was sending this unmet young woman the globally accepted lexicographical symbol for the pressing of one’s lips to the lips of another.

I suppose because I have always signed off letters and emails with kisses, to both girls and boys. But mostly to girls. And I’ve never meant anything by it. They are only crosses tapped thoughtlessly twice on a keyboard. But they still do mean “kiss, kiss”, and I wouldn’t put them on an email to the editor. I don’t really want to drop a smooch on young Melanie. Do I?

And at that moment I realised the time had come to start being more careful about who I make out that I want to kiss. For we live in a post-Weinstein world now. And we already did, before Weinstein. Though nobody told Weinstein.

Over the last few years, man after man in the public eye has met his downfall when a woman came forward and made claims against him of sexual aggression of one sort or another.

And when one female accuser comes out, more come. Inevitable as the rain. Sometimes it is hundreds, as with Weinstein. And then without any cross-examination of the stories, the man is finished. No trials or second chances. Even if nobody said “rape”. Even if it was just touching, or saying things, or simply standing there in a bathrobe being an ugly fat old slob, looking as if you would quite like to have sex (a crime of which I myself am frequently guilty), the man is finished.

And rightly, I suppose. Women have suffered sexual microaggressions (and macro ones) at the hands of men for thousands of years. All of them, from what I can make out, by all of us. And I don’t want to run the slightest risk of being seen to have any part in any of it any more.

Melanie asked me to write a piece for The Times. She didn’t ask to be unexpectedly metaphorically snogged. She did not ask to be backed into the corner of an imaginary party and have some old man’s crackly lips pressed figuratively up against her own. Why did I want to put kisses?

I think I must accept that in part it was because I sometimes think I am still a bit sexy. That Melanie might want to be kissed by me. It is a mistake many men make as they get older, not noticing that they have become unattractive and that gestures which might once have been seen as charming have gradually become revolting. Like the proverbial toad in a saucepan of water, warming slowly and unwittingly towards its inevitable death.

I was a nice-looking boy, once upon a time. I didn’t smell or have unsightly body hair, and girls sometimes did want to kiss me, and said so. So I kissed them. And from time to time I kissed girls who worked with me. Sometimes we had sex. They were usually younger than me (not always, but mostly) and as time went on, the age gap between them and me widened.

I am as certain as a man can be that I never touched a woman who didn’t want me to. But I suppose one or two of them might have mistakenly thought that shagging me could in some way end up proving useful. Although I would put my eyes out now, here, all over my iPad, if I thought a woman had ever had sex with me because she thought she had to. (I’m not counting anyone who might have shagged me just to be polite. We’ve surely all done that: got to the point where stopping now would simply look rude and just gritted our teeth and pushed on through).

But I am old and grey now and losing muscle tone and it would be nothing but the ridiculous vanity of a withered ego to assume any young woman wanted to kiss me, unless she thought it might get her a job. Which it sadly wouldn’t.

So I think it’s time to put it all away. Time to stop smiling back at women in the street who are only smiling because they’ve seen me on the telly, not because they think I’m hot.

Time to stop being “charming” to waitresses. Time to stop trying to make women laugh. I like making women laugh more than I like making men laugh. Partly because the hot gust of a woman’s breath when she does so is rarely as punishing as a man’s, and partly because of the old saw about women finding funny men sexy. Ooh, she laughed: she fancies me.

That’s got to end now. No more jokes. And no more half-smiles across parties that used (I think) to look beguiling, but now look like Fagin ogling an unguarded farthing.

No more wearing nice shirts and doing my hair and standing up straight and trying to look manly. No more being just a tiny bit ruder than other men as if maybe I’m dangerous in bed (I’m not). Weinstein has spoiled all that.

One misfired flirt and I could be out of a job, publicly shunned, end up in prison. The women are out there who could make it happen. The historic crimes, real or imagined, are waiting to tumble upon one wrong move.

Ping out a couple of unwanted crosses into the ether and the world could fall on my head. And possibly rightly. I no longer feel morally competent to judge.

So no kisses today, but thank you very much, Melanie, for the commission. Yes, I’ll do it. And good luck in the new job.

All the best,

Giles.
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And when one female accuser comes out, more come. Inevitable as the rain. Sometimes it is hundreds, as with Weinstein. And then without any cross-examination of the stories, the man is finished. No trials or second chances. Even if nobody said “rape”. Even if it was just touching, or saying things, or simply standing there in a bathrobe being an ugly fat old slob, looking as if you would quite like to have sex (a crime of which I myself am frequently guilty), the man is finished.
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Creepy. Writing that kind of stupid shit is a lot likelier to hurt his career than putting an 'x' at the end of an email.
 
spanglechick said:
Giles Coren's column today has made me furious. Equates misjudged flirting with Weinstein's crimes. Claims putting kisses at the end of an email could send him to jail. Utter cunt.
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If and when Weinstein goes to jail (about 25/75 against, at the moment, I'd say) I hope somebody rams that disgusting piece in Coren's face.
 
Wilf said:
If and when Weinstein goes to jail (about 25/75 against, at the moment, I'd say) I hope somebody rams that disgusting piece in Coren's face.
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The point is, jailing Weinstein would be grist to his mill. Because his hell in a hand basket theory is that harmless, clumsy male behaviour will now see men jailed.
 
Think is, Coren is close to the essence of the problem. His largely harmless male entitlement in his relationships with female colleagues, is undesirable. It is (a very small) part of the problem. And men should be examining the ways they are part of the problem, and changing their behaviour. He very nearly wrote a fantastic column. But he didn't.
 
It's clear Weinstein was a an extremely powerful man in Hollywood. He literally could make or break careers.
Of course they all knew what he was up to, but to call him out could amount to career suicide, before all this.
And as much as the Hollywood elite like to shine the light on injustice etc, they would not do it at the detriment of their own livelihood. Thus they'll call Trump all the cunts under the sun but won't have spoken publicly about Weinstein
 
D'wards said:
It's clear Weinstein was a an extremely powerful man in Hollywood. He literally could make or break careers.
Of course they all knew what he was up to, but to call him out could amount to career suicide, before all this.
And as much as the Hollywood elite like to shine the light on injustice etc, they would not do it at the detriment of their own livelihood. Thus they'll call Trump all the cunts under the sun but won't have spoken publicly about Weinstein
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Well, yes, but it's important to be clear it's not ideologically-driven hypocrisy. It's not like everybody turned a blind eye because HW accepted the science of climate change. It's because trying to do anything about it would have likely proved futile and he had the power to ruin people, be they hotel maids, casting directors or whatever. No doubt Trump has benefited from the same thing.
 
Raheem said:
Well, yes, but it's important to be clear it's not ideologically-driven hypocrisy. It's not like everybody turned a blind eye because HW accepted the science of climate change. It's because trying to do anything about it would have likely proved futile and he had the power to ruin people, be they hotel maids, casting directors or whatever. No doubt Trump has benefited from the same thing.
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True. I will point out that once the story breaks it's out there for the world to see and many women who didn't have the same experience probably didn't know about each other until they heard about it in the media. The same goes for Trump and allegations against him or Bill Cosby and sexual predators in general. If they did it to one person they probably did it to others.
 
spanglechick said:
Think is, Coren is close to the essence of the problem. His largely harmless male entitlement in his relationships with female colleagues, is undesirable. It is (a very small) part of the problem. And men should be examining the ways they are part of the problem, and changing their behaviour. He very nearly wrote a fantastic column. But he didn't.
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That is such a self-pitying piece of bilge (I mean his column - not your post!)
 
spanglechick said:
Think is, Coren is close to the essence of the problem. His largely harmless male entitlement in his relationships with female colleagues, is undesirable. It is (a very small) part of the problem. And men should be examining the ways they are part of the problem, and changing their behaviour. He very nearly wrote a fantastic column. But he didn't.
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Considering how fucking furious Sue Perkins was on the last leg, I think if they ever do their food show age, Coren should employ a food taster.
 
spanglechick said:
Think is, Coren is close to the essence of the problem. His largely harmless male entitlement in his relationships with female colleagues, is undesirable. It is (a very small) part of the problem. And men should be examining the ways they are part of the problem, and changing their behaviour. He very nearly wrote a fantastic column. But he didn't.
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It's when he says that Weinstein has "spoiled it" for everyone else that I nearly roared aloud in anger. As if the problem isn't the constant background field of the patriarchy and the predatory sexual encounter, but the fact that this conversation has finally started to happen.

That article is all about the self pity.

He allows that he may have contributed to the problem by his own behaviour (and I'm seeing men start to do this all over the place, and I welcome that); and then the entire article is a kind of lament for a culture passing out of time. Not an iota of self examination in there, only some kind of resigned woeful agreement to switch over to something he doesn't want to join, but will do in order to preserve his career.

Horrible hypocrisy of acknowledging the problem, admitting he's been a part of it, and then not owning any responsibility for that.
 
spanglechick said:
Giles Coren's column today has made me furious. Equates misjudged flirting with Weinstein's crimes. Claims putting kisses at the end of an email could send him to jail. Utter cunt.
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I unfriended someone Id already been told was an abuser this week. His reaction to the #metoo campaign was very telling. So much butthurt, so many jokes cracked. Yes the reactions have made me furious, but now I really know who to watch out for, its outed them.
 
Good article here on his political patronage . No surprise at all Obama ,the Clintons and a few others had to be shamed aboard the condemnation wagon .

What Harvey Weinstein tells us about the liberal world | Thomas Frank


Eta

And another comparing his behaviour to that of his mate Bill Clintons , and the resultant knots that his serial abusive behaviour has tied various feminists, liberals etc up in . Clear double standards on another open secret


.The Clinton Double Standard
 
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