Professionals send Brixton property prices surging by 15%

[RaverDrew]

...maybe I've missed summat, I haven't read the entire thread, but what's happening in Brixton isn't white flight. It's richer largely white people moving in.

I think there's crossed wires, because I wasn't denying that at all, if anything there's more "Black flight" happening in Brixton atm.

 

[editor]

You're clutching at straws here I think. "White flight" is a term that is frequently used to describe what MillwallShoes was saying, there's nothing racist about it.

So what minorities are currently driving out these whites? And where?

White flight:

The phenomenon of upper and middle class whites moving out of cities and into the suburbs is known as white flight. The opposite of white flight is gentrification, a process in which wealthy whites move back into an urban area, displacing the current residents and rapidly driving up the cost of living so that the previous residents are forced to move. Both practices have been extensively documented by students of demographics and urban development. White flight, in particular, has negative connotations, especially for those left behind in the suddenly impoverished neighborhood.

White flight began on a large scale after the Second World War, when African-Americans began to try to establish homes in America's cities. Many of these men and women were starting to enter the middle class themselves, with good jobs, education, and community values. In many cases, however, racism led whites to attempt to force blacks out. When this proved unsuccessful, the white population moved to the suburbs, establishing new and primarily racially homogeneous communities. This practice was termed "white flight," and resulted in class and racial segregation in many American cities.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-white-flight.htm
(there's some shocking comments after this article, btw)

 

[stuff_it]

She's right, bits of it sell fish and there are meat stalls and fruit and veg stalls - just like Thailand.

 

[Manter]

So what minorities are currently driving out these whites? And where?

holy fuck, the comments are properly

 

[Crispy]

Jesus, can we just accept that he used the wrong word to describe the phenomenon, instead of dancing round in circles playing the semantics game?

 

[editor]

I think you need to step out of the little "Brixton Bubble" for a bit and see what has been happening in other parts of South London for decades. Brixton is a far more mixed and tolerant place than any other part of South London.

So, once again, where is this 'white flight' happening now and what minorities are driving it?

Oh, and I've lived all over London, thanks.

 

[Manter]

So what minorities are currently driving out these whites? And where?

slight derail- one of my black colleagues, who grew up here, now lives in Wandsworth, said he wouldn't live here, or even come and visit the villaaaage, because there 'are too many black people'

 

[stuff_it]

holy fuck, the comments are properly

Innit, I'm stunned but not that surprised. Don't people get done for posting stuff like that on twitter?

 

[RaverDrew]

So what minorities are currently driving out these whites? And where?

Wtf has America got to do with "White Flight" in South London ?

monkeygrinders has already pointed out the relevant quotes from the wikipedia article on white flight in the uk. Why are you choosing to ignore this ?

 

[MillwallShoes]

so it isn't white flight! its economic factors!

ergo, @editor's point- why bring race into it?

because there was a massive moving out of london in the past twenty years of white people?

 

[Manter]

Wtf has America got to do with "White Flight" in South London ?

monkeygrinders has already pointed out the relevant quotes from the wikipedia article on white flight in the uk. Why are you choosing to ignore this ?

the name developed in the US, like so much. We borrowed it over here.

 

[Manter]

because there was a massive moving out of london in the past twenty years of white people?

and a massive moving in of white people, just richer ones

 

[editor]

Jesus, can we just accept that he used the wrong word to describe the phenomenon, instead of dancing round in circles playing the semantics game?

It might be nice if he acknowledged that, because it is a very emotive phrase with all sorts of connotations. The fact that he's continuing to use the phrase despite its full meaning being explained several times does make me wonder.

 

[MillwallShoes]

Wtf has America got to do with "White Flight" in South London ?

monkeygrinders has already pointed out the relevant quotes from the wikipedia article on white flight in the uk. Why are you choosing to ignore this ?

because it's waaacccciisstt.

 

[editor]

Wtf has America got to do with "White Flight" in South London ?

Why does it matter where the phrase originated? Its meaning is universal.

 

[Manter]

Innit, I'm stunned but not that surprised. Don't people get done for posting stuff like that on twitter?

good point- why does twitter (and facebook groups) get treated differently.

tho full enforcement may shut down the daily mail site, of course...

E2amend spelling

 

[Ms Ordinary]

the biggest tragedy, and the biggest sickener for me, if you really want to pin something on the middle class urban, is education. where i live in west norwood, we have palace up the road and cafes stock full every morning of yummy mummies and their posh prams.

their kids are almost entirely absent from the secondary schools round here though. there's a real class and race issue right there, the way these people wouldn't dream of sending their kids to london state schools.

believe me, they scarper sharpish when that kid is beyond primary years...

the devide in london education is far more important than house prices in brixton and cupcakes.

Agree - but this is going to get worse, if huge areas of inner London become unaffordable to the kind of young professionals (like Crispy) who would send their children to London state schools - and are only affordable to the really rich middle classes who would always go private anyway (or move out to Berkshire or Surrey like you say).

Brixton Square - starter flats for a quarter of a million pounds - I don't think the people buying those are going to be adding to the social mix in London state secondary schools in 15 years time.

 

[editor]

because there was a massive moving out of london in the past twenty years of white people?

You said that it's still going on too. So where is that happening?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

because there was a massive moving out of london in the past twenty years of white people?

Can't say I've noticed that at all. I've lived in Brixton for over 30 years and that's not at all what I've seen.

 

[MillwallShoes]

i've already given the dog his bone and agreed that some (racist) white people moved out because of immigration.

one strand in the term "white flight". which is just one indicator of how london changes over time largely because of the housing market

 

[MillwallShoes]

You said that it's still going on too. So where is that happening?

proper weird.

 

[Crispy]

Can't say I've noticed that at all. I've lived in Brixton for over 30 years and that's not at all what I've seen.

There must be census data out there to help clear this up. Let me see what I can find.

 

[MillwallShoes]

Can't say I've noticed that at all. I've lived in Brixton for over 30 years and that's not at all what I've seen.

elephant, okr, deptford, new cross, they've nearly all moved out.

 

[RaverDrew]

It might be nice if he acknowledged that, because it is a very emotive phrase with all sorts of connotations. The fact that he's continuing to use the phrase despite its full meaning being explained several times does make me wonder.

So the former head of the Commission for Racial Equality uses it to describe white Londoners fleeing inner city communities, but that's not good enough for you ?

I give up.

 

[RaverDrew]

Can't say I've noticed that at all. I've lived in Brixton for over 30 years and that's not at all what I've seen.

tbf much of the white flight from Brixton happened more than 30 years ago, so you've been witnessing the reversal almost.

 

[Manter]

Agree - but this is going to get worse, if huge areas of inner London become unaffordable to the kind of young professionals (like Crispy) who would send their children to London state schools - and are only affordable to the really rich middle classes who would always go private anyway (or move out to Berkshire or Surrey like you say).

Brixton Square - starter flats for a quarter of a million pounds - I don't think the people buying those are going to be adding to the social mix in London state secondary schools in 15 years time.

Dunno- think all the goalposts have changed. When and where I grew up (Berkshire, Surrey, Hampshire in the 80s and 90s) a professional couple could afford to privately educate 2 children, many on one professional income- and many did. Now private schooling has increased exponentially in price, so middle class people with two full professional incomes can't afford it.

Those new buyers may well be doing very well in the great scheme of things, but they are unlikely to be able to opt out of the state system, as that has become the preserve, increasingly, of the super rich. But for some reason that isn't driving a 'we're all in this together' (sorry, couldn't resist) behaviour, it is pushing infighting... and we are all ignoring the super rich who are pulling further away, paying less tax, insulating themselves from reality even further....

 

[stuff_it]

You said that it's still going on too. So where is that happening?

Lots of racists from London in Milton Keynes. Don't think there is one part of London they are from but there is definitely a largely white and largely racist element there these days. Even the Mr (who is from there) says that culturally it's very racist, to the point where listening to reggae is frowned upon by a lot of people and so on.

For example: http://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/elections/displayarticle.asp?ID=63046



Clearly most of them moved there some time ago though.

 

[TruXta]

Interestingly, there is more internal migration out of London than into it.
http://data.london.gov.uk/datastore/package/migration-indicators

@Crispy

 

[MillwallShoes]

over the past few years, i have come to the sad conclusion that london is fucked. something has changed, someone has said. there's something going and it's to do with money.

 

[editor]

tbf much of the white flight from Brixton happened more than 30 years ago, so you've been witnessing the reversal almost.

And this thread is about the current situation.