Prevent: How far has surveillance of muslim communities gone?

[Smokeandsteam]

No but 39th's post was still about anti-radicalisation right?

I thought it was about the need to confront reactionary ideas and not to pander to them or apply cultural relativism to those holding those ideas but why not ask him?

 

[Beats & Pieces]

The early Prevent channeled cash into community projects as mentioned above - camping, sports that kind of stuff but the government review found that to be problematic as it was often given to groups who failed to account for money spent etc. That strategy was dumped in favor of beefing up public services based monitoring and response activities. Along with some cash to look at 'prislam'. The cynic might argue that what Prevent does do is open up a platform, lines and strategy which deals with some of the issues they ran into before in terms of information flow - for example lecturers who refused to hand over student work or records. Along with its other functions it has set in place a system whereby individuals can be by passed using the magic word PREVENT. Although the legislation provides for teams that deal with referrals and can be chaired by a range of public servants it is almost always the Police that chair. And as far as I know there are scant details about how the 'reeducation' is formatted. Once you have the structure in place it can be used for a range of different people - if there is any significant reaction to welfare cuts, possible meltdown in the future etc. I always recall one of my politics lecturers saying 'imagine if Hitler had a data base'. (Goodwin Award rejected).

You hit upon a point of fundamental importance - what on earth is the process of re-calibration whereby an individual can be re-situated within an ideological framework, and according to what paradigm? Who decides what is, or is not, a 'radical Islam'? What is 'Islamism'? What is 'Fundamentalism?' (notably originally applied to a Christian context). Do Muslims orientate this positionality, or is it a secular (and thereby assumed objective) projection or gaze determining the points of acceptability?

 

[The39thStep]

No but 39th's post was still about anti-radicalisation right?

Read the post , it was about countering the Islamcists and the conservative reactionary swamp they float in normally defended by the liberal left.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

ugh i don't care about these liberal left motherfuckers.

Why?
why?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Read the post , it was about countering the Islamcists and the conservative reactionary swamp they float in normally defended by the liberal left.

The fact that some who claim progressive politics have absolutely nothing to say about this is a massive problem frankly.

I'm willing to listen to any critcisms of the Prevent strategy. In fact I share most of them.

But then when you ask what should be done instead you either get silence or liberal explaining/facilitation/pandering. And in the absence of any sober and clear set of ideas, plus in some cases a refusal to even acknowledge that there is an issue here, the space remains open for the Government/others on the right to fill.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

as if the government/the right haven't occupied that space already lol.

Sorry that muslims aren't fulfilling your need for strategy.

So, what is to be done then? What would you suggest instead?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

as if the government/the right haven't occupied that space already lol.

 

[The39thStep]

The fact that some who claim progressive politics have absolutely nothing to say about this is a massive problem frankly.

I'm willing to listen to any critcisms of the Prevent strategy. In fact I share most of them.

But then when you ask what should be done instead you either get silence or liberal explaining/facilitation/pandering. And in the absence of any sober and clear set of ideas, plus in some cases a refusal to even acknowledge that there is an issue here, the space remains open for the Government/others on the right to fill.

makes you wonder if some people never get out of their little bubble and talk to anyone normal. You are right no alternative ever offered aside change British foreign policy

 

[Beats & Pieces]

The fact that some who claim progressive politics have absolutely nothing to say about this is a massive problem frankly.

I'm willing to listen to any critcisms of the Prevent strategy. In fact I share most of them.

But then when you ask what should be done instead you either get silence or liberal explaining/facilitation/pandering. And in the absence of any sober and clear set of ideas, plus in some cases a refusal to even acknowledge that there is an issue here, the space remains open for the Government/others on the right to fill.

Well, in the first instance in might have been a better idea NOT to create a process that included the Police? There is no reason whatsoever why it had to be placed under their remit - except insofar as it allowed for the gathering of information relating to Muslims. And would then subsequently include legislation effectively incriminating those who allegedly failed to report concerns to Police.

Quite a paradigm shift to start with.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

smh.

 

[The39thStep]

High Court Ruling on challenge to Prevent by chief editor of Islam21c,a website whose contributers called for the death penalty for non beleivers,say women who wear perfume are adulteresses, promote backward views on homosexuality, FGM, non-Muslims, Jewish people, wife-beating .Butt wants Israel to be moved to the USA and equates homosexuality with pedophiles.
High Court rejects legal challenge against counter-radicalisation strategy at UK universities | Policy Exchange