Popinjay vs wideboy

[JoePolitix]

The Clash of the Titans (or is it just clash of the tits?) is finally on the horizon. George Galloway and Christopher Hitchens finally go head to head in New York this September to debate Iraq and U.S foreign policy.

Shame its all the way stateside, its bound to be a good bout. Last time they meet Galloway famously informed Hitchens;

"You're a drink-soaked former Trotskyist popinjay,"

Hitchens replied "You really are a thug aren’t you" and stormed off. Quite mild in comparison you might think…. until the next day when the drink soaked ex trot really let rip:

"H]e (Galloway) looks so much like what he is: a thug and a demagogue, the type of working-class-wideboy-and-proud-of-it who is too used to the expenses account, the cars and the hotels - all cigars and back-slapping. He is a very cheap character and a short-arse like a lot of them are, puffed up like a turkey."

I reckon Galloway will make mince meat of him though, the guys just a neo-con stooge, he even admitted in an interview Johann Hari that he was on the same side as the neo-cons. The most blatant example I could find on this was in an article by Tawfiq Chahboune on the Socialist Unity Network. The aforementioned author asked Hitchens that if the Bush adminstration was serious about supporting the spread of democracy why did it support a coup against the elected president of Venezuela?:

‘"Right, your Chavez question," he said, at last taking it seriously. "Chavez is a thug. He’ll be gone within two years, as will the Iranian regime. And Bush will be landing in Havana within two years. Then the last two uniformed leaders [in the Americas] will be gone."’

Joe

http://book.democracynow.org/tourpage.php?id=472

New York, NY:
Wednesday, September 14, 7:00 PM


A debate between George Galloway and Christopher Hitchens
on Iraq and U.S. and British foreign policy.

Moderated by Amy Goodman

Mason Hall at the Baruch College Performing Arts Center
17 Lexington Ave., enter on 23rd St.
New York, NY

Tickets $12 in advance through Ticket Central
www.ticketcentral.com, Phone: 212-279-4200
and at the door.,

For more details on this debate and Galloway's U.S. tour September 13-24, visit:
www.mrgallowaygoestowashington.com
email: Galloway2005@comcast.net
or call 415-607-1924.

Presented by: The New Press, International Socialist Review, and the Center for Economic Research and Social Change

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Hitchens is quite sharp in debate though - or at least he was a couple of years ago, I've not seen him recently and I suspect he may have gone downhill. His articles have got less and less convincing and more and more dogmatic and irrational. But I remember him giving US anti-war people a run for their money in a proper TV debate before the invasion. (Not that it made any difference either way - there was no debate in the mainstream and no anti-war positions got any serious airtime.)

Still, that should be excellent - I'd love to be able to go. Hopefully there will be a transcript.

N.B. URL is just a holding page. A little spammy, this post, but given there's no great commercial gain to be gotten here and it's potentially of interest to people, I'll let it slide for the moment.

 

[oi2002]

The TLS described it as Flyting. My money is on the Sweatie.

 

[friedaweed]

Great first post really enjoyed the read.

I wait with bated breath for this wagging of chins
It'll be entertaining if nothing else

 

[purves grundy]

Cheers for telling me about this. I've just bought Hitchens' 'Love, Poverty, and War' - excellent stuff... why did he go over to the other side jusslikedat?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's odd. I don't really know. He started off supporting the war on a "removing a nasty dictator" basis, which, even if I don't agree with the conclusions, is at least an understandable position to take, and there were people here who did on that basis too. But then he became more and more allied with the neocons and their intellectually bankrupt media flacks, repeating the Bushco talking points. It's a real shame.

 

[phildwyer]

Hitchens' stance on the war should surprise no-one. He is a self -described "contrarian," meaning he'll say whatever he thinks will get people upset. You shouldn't imagine that he believes what he says.

 

[DexterTCN]

Being pro-war in the American media isn't exactly contrary.

 

[purves grundy]

Being pro-war in the American media isn't exactly contrary.

I guess it all depends on the target audience of the article or the publication it appears in. In that 'Love, Poverty...' collection, amongst the pre neo-conversion articles is a brilliant piece of writing against the death penalty, but later a demolition of Michael Moore and the premises of his Farenheit 9/11 which would have any pbman giggling inanely.

There's nobody more zealous than a convert, I suppose.

 

[sihhi]

But then he became more and more allied with the neocons and their intellectually bankrupt media flacks, repeating the Bushco talking points. It's a real shame.

His bile on the Sheenan vigil is really quite brilliant....

The military and its relatives have no extra claim on the chief executive's ear. Indeed, it might be said that they have less claim than the rest of us, since they have voluntarily sworn an oath to obey and carry out orders.

Notice the deeply totalitarian thought-patterns:

Promising to work in the military arm of the state should equal less influence on state policies.

Are we so sure that he would have wanted to see his mother acquiring "a knack for P.R." and announcing that he was killed in a war for a ]Jewish cabal? (a claim that has brought David Duke flying to Ms. Sheehan's side.)

Since certain nasty people (in this case Duke) also subscribe to a position- it is de facto be wrong.

Also note clever insertion of "Jewish cabal" phrase.

 

[nino_savatte]

Hitchens isn't going to come out of this encounter unscathed.

My money is on Georgie Boy.

 

[Belushi]

Is Hitchens sober enough for this kind of debate nowadays?

Galloway is going to make mincemeat out of him.

 

[fela fan]

Why can't it be on september 11, and between galloway and bush??

 

[james_walsh]

Why can't it be on september 11, and between galloway and bush??

Bush's idea of a debate is to send in 200,000 G.I.'s armed to the teeth. Even Galloway ain't that tough a thug!
Might is right, is a hard arguement to defeat.

 

[fela fan]

Bush's idea of a debate is to send in 200,000 G.I.'s armed to the teeth. Even Galloway ain't that tough a thug!
Might is right, is a hard arguement to defeat.

But you have to admit that if it were the two of them on tv debating, bush would be rendered so impossibly speechless with his face going apoplectic simultaneously with a cornered rat look, they'd cart him off to the asylum...

 

[levien]

It'd almost be worth the air fare to see GG rip a slice out of Hitchens. Does anyone know whether it will be streamed over the internet?

 

[james_walsh]

But you have to admit that if it were the two of them on tv debating, bush would be rendered so impossibly speechless with his face going apoplectic simultaneously with a cornered rat look, they'd cart him off to the asylum...

Your right off couse, i'd be worried that when he does get back to the oval office , that he may nuke east london.Galloway seems to fair better in debate against those who don't understand left wing politics. He kicked Paxemans arse, i was almost glad that RESPECT had won in Bow.

 

[purves grundy]

i was almost glad that RESPECT had won in Bow.

Steady now!

Anyone else tried that mrgalloway link? Nothing much to see there for me

 

[hibee]

It's a bit like when Hearts play Rangers. I end up hoping for a 0-0 draw with lots of injuries.

 

[oi2002]

Only 2 days to go!

 

[mears]

You got to love Hitchens. It was great to see him become a US citizen.

Galloway is a pimp, an apologist for the mass murdering Saddam Hussein.

Did Galloway every specify an ideal foreign policy stance that the US and UK should have taken up with Saddam? Did he just want to end sanctions and go back to the good old days of doing business with the tyrant?

Or was he capable of articulating such a stance?

 

[butchersapron]

Fuck me, you even write like a cunt. Read what you posted. Change it and post it again.

Even if your not capable of not doing so.

 

[TeeJay]

But you have to admit that if it were the two of them on tv debating, bush would be rendered so impossibly speechless with his face going apoplectic simultaneously with a cornered rat look, they'd cart him off to the asylum...

Bush debated well against Kerry.

transcripts: http://www.debates.org/pages/debtrans.html

 

[TeeJay]

Steady now!

Anyone else tried that mrgalloway link? Nothing much to see there for me

Sorry, but you did ask (nb click on the image).

 

[nino_savatte]

Only (s)mears would think Hitchens was anything more than an auld soak.

 

[belboid]

It's odd. I don't really know. He started off supporting the war on a "removing a nasty dictator" basis, which, even if I don't agree with the conclusions, is at least an understandable position to take, and there were people here who did on that basis too. But then he became more and more allied with the neocons and their intellectually bankrupt media flacks, repeating the Bushco talking points. It's a real shame.

well, he changed following 9/11, iirr. One can kind of understand his desire to help 'get' Al Qaida - he knew people in the twin towers - but the extent to which he has become a complete bushbot is astounding!

And terrible, because phildwyer is utterly wrong to say he was a 'contrarian' - he was a bloody good writer, with a largely consistent set of interests. His books on (evil step) Mother Theresa & that bastard kissinger

 

[Streathamite]

You got to love Hitchens. It was great to see him become a US citizen.

Galloway is a pimp, an apologist for the mass murdering Saddam Hussein.

Did Galloway every specify an ideal foreign policy stance that the US and UK should have taken up with Saddam? Did he just want to end sanctions and go back to the good old days of doing business with the tyrant?

Or was he capable of articulating such a stance?

are you completely barking? I loathe GG, and eagerly look forward to WESPECK's demise - but Hitchens - like his bruv - is a laughable, washed-up old soak.
And yes, COUNTLESS people have articulated a response to saddam
10 sanctions
2) UN monitoring
3) support for democratic opposition groups
4) not arming him in the first place
-and if you missed any or all of that, you shouldn't be let near a PC

 

[Final]

until the next day when the drink soaked ex trot really let rip:

Comebacks don't really count if it takes 24 hours to come up with a retort, GC is going to humiliate him.

 

[kyser_soze]

They're both twats for different reasons. Pity Hitchens probably won't be on full form for this but it'll make for an amusing nights debate/exchange of rhetoric and invective.

I've just finished 're-reading' Mathew Pariss' book 'Scorn' and wish that politicians would insult each other a lot more often than they do...

 

[purves grundy]

Sorry, but you did ask (nb click on the image).

Ugh!

ta for reminder