Police harass bloke filming a station/"planning an al Qaeda attack"

[editor]

Here's a curious news piece.

Police today described how two officers on patrol may have foiled a mass-casualty al Qaeda attack on London.

This CCTV image shows them moments before they stepped in to question a man filming the crowds at Liverpool Street Station on his mobile phone.

The Algerian national was stopped because of his suspicious behaviour including attempts to hide his filming. Initially questioned on immigration offences, the man was later arrested under the Terrorism Act on suspicion of collecting information to commit an act of terrorism.

But reading on there appears to be no evidence whatsoever that they were linked to any terrorist groups at all.

Could be this be the Met trying to turn pubic opinion after the recent grief it's been getting about cops hassling photographers?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...-police-say-they-foiled-an-al-qaeda-attack.do

 

[The Black Hand]

Here's a curious news piece.



But reading on there appears to be no evidence whatsoever that they were linked to any terrorist groups at all.

Could be this be the Met trying to turn pubic opinion after the recent grief it's been getting about cops hassling photographers?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...-police-say-they-foiled-an-al-qaeda-attack.do

Quite.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Marc Vallée is trying to confirm whether he was initially stopped under s44.

Meanwhile... Paul Lewis threatened under s44 whilst taking photos of Gherkin, and photographer threatened, arrested, beaten and then fined by police invoking s44.

Smells of poorly carried out attempt at gaining the PR initiative. Met Commissioner will be talking about these issues on Radio 4's Today programme tomorrow.

 

[laptop]

Could be this be the Met trying to turn pubic opinion after the recent grief it's been getting about cops hassling photographers?

Yes, it could. Shit Evening Standard report is shitter than the BBC repeating the police press release, here.

(Er, the earlier version of the story explicitly said it was released to show that stopping snappers is right.)

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Re: DaveC's last link. Confirmation that 'being cocky' is indeed an offence ... apparently.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Paul Lewis is now tweeting that the CPS say terrorism charges were not brought because there was insufficient evidence, not (as per City of London Police press office) that there would 'no point because they wouldn't do any more time than for the fraud charges'.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Could be this be the Met trying to turn pubic opinion after the recent grief it's been getting about cops hassling photographers?

City of London Police BTW.

 

[HAL9000]

There's another photography story in the US

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8412984.stm

US 'video terrorist' pair jailed for 17 and 13 years
Two US men convicted of plotting to aid terrorists by filming landmarks and sending the clips abroad have been given lengthy prison sentences

• Both in the UK and US I wonder how long the evidence will stand up.
• Secondly the dual use nature of the technology, for example a phone can be use for wide range of purposes. Good applications far out weigh the bad uses.

 

[DaveCinzano]

photographer threatened, arrested, beaten and then fined by police invoking s44

Re: DaveC's last link. Confirmation that 'being cocky' is indeed an offence ... apparently.

Looks like Paul Lewis & The Guardian have picked up this story and will be republishing the video themselves.

 

[Fullyplumped]

to be fair, it's unlikely that the Algerian police would stand idly by while a British national took snaps at a main station in Algiers. I imagine that words of advice would be offered.

 

[Dr Jon]

to be fair, it's unlikely that the Algerian police would stand idly by while a British national took snaps at a main station in Algiers.

Reminds me of a friend who had film ripped from her camera by cops, after being spotted taking a photo at New Delhi railway station. Lost loads of holiday pics, she did.

 

[Pickman's model]

a year or two back i took pictures of all the cctv cameras i could see in liverpool street station with nary a sign of anyone being put out by what i was doing

but then again i'm not algerian.

 

[ymu]

to be fair, it's unlikely that the Algerian police would stand idly by while a British national took snaps at a main station in Algiers. I imagine that words of advice would be offered.

Of course, they would. Can't be having photographs of a station out there. They'd be crazy to allow it!

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course, they would. Can't be having photographs of a station out there. They'd be crazy to allow it!

they would indeed: http://images.google.co.uk/images?h...rs+train+station&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&start=0

 

[Refused as fuck]

to be fair, it's unlikely that the Algerian police would stand idly by while a British national took snaps at a main station in Algiers. I imagine that words of advice would be offered.

 

[Azrael]

There's another photography story in the US

The was a court case proven beyond reasonable doubt to the satisfaction of a 12 person jury. Quite different to a law that allows police to hassle photographers taking images that could be useful to terrorists!

 

[Bernie Gunther]

OK, so our civil liberties are apparently roughly comparable to those of Algeria in this respect? Are we supposed to be proud of that?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Looks like Paul Lewis & The Guardian have picked up this story and will be republishing the video themselves.

It's now up on the Guardian website.

 

[Roadkill]

Could be this be the Met trying to turn pubic opinion after the recent grief it's been getting about cops hassling photographers?

*Consults pubes* No, they're not convinced either.

Sorry, couldn't resist that.

The timing of this is a bit convenient, isn't it, given the rash of stories about photographers being hassled. An arrest of a photographer who really is up to no good - or seems to be - would provide immediate justification...

to be fair, it's unlikely that the Algerian police would stand idly by while a British national took snaps at a main station in Algiers. I imagine that words of advice would be offered.

 

[Fullyplumped]

If you take photos like that you run the risk of getting your thumb in the picture.

 

[Roadkill]

If you take photos like that you run the risk of getting your thumb in the picture.

Not being a good photographer I sometimes do exactly that.

The however referred to your remark about photographers being harassed in Algeria, by which you seemed to be implying that since it would happen there it's acceptable here too. Perhaps you'd like to clarify?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I think to be fair, it's unproven that such harassment by police of innocent photographers would happen in Algeria, but well proven that it happens all too frequently here.

So I would say that provisionally, in the absence of any coherent case by the smug nuLabour shill, we might even want to consider that our civil liberties are very possibly less well protected with regard to photography than those of people in Algeria.

Doesn't that make you proud to be British ... ?

 

[goldenecitrone]

"You're just being unpolite here" Thick fucking cunt. She could speak English better than him.

 

[newme]

So the evidence was, a tourist was filming something?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Not being a good photographer I sometimes do exactly that.

The however referred to your remark about photographers being harassed in Algeria, by which you seemed to be implying that since it would happen there it's acceptable here too. Perhaps you'd like to clarify?

I know it did. I was pretending not to understand, for comic effect.

If a police officer is suspicious, as they seem to have been in the case being reported, I would expect them to be inquisitive and to ask questions. I would expect them to be more inquisitive about a young man of North African appearance acting in the way he had been acting, than in the case of, for example, my 86 year old mum taking snaps. I would be unsurprised if Algerian police would act differently if a young British man was acting in the same way at a station in Algiers. Both London and Algiers are cities where young men have in the past committed terrorist outrages. Right enough, I am not a young man of North African appearance and I've never taken photos in stations in Algiers. As an infrequent user of London railway termini I hope that police continue to act in this way, and I must say I am more circumspect about such behaviour in central London than I am in my own home town, although I wouldn't be that surprised or upset if a police officer was to ask me what I was up to with a camera at Glasgow Central.

 

[detective-boy]

Could be this be the Met trying to turn pubic opinion after the recent grief it's been getting about cops hassling photographers?

I think more likely to explain that there are cases where there is genuine suspicion about what they were up to ... and hence that it is worthy of asking questions of people seemingly taking pictures in circumstances which arouse suspicion for whatever reason.

And don't forget that the 7/7 bombers were found to have carried out reconnaissance and / or dry runs.

Not everyone taking pictures is a terrorist (not even one in a thousand or whatever are) ... but we know some may be.

Do we simply ignore the opportunity to prevent a possible attack (either by seeing them, speaking to them and starting a line of enquiry as in the case linked to or simply by making it more difficult for them to plan thoroughly as they fear they will be seen and stopped)?

 

[Pickman's model]

I think more likely to explain that there are cases where there is genuine suspicion about what they were up to ... and hence that it is worthy of asking questions of people seemingly taking pictures in circumstances which arouse suspicion for whatever reason.

And don't forget that the 7/7 bombers were found to have carried out reconnaissance and / or dry runs.

Not everyone taking pictures is a terrorist (not even one in a thousand or whatever are) ... but we know some may be.

Do we simply ignore the opportunity to prevent a possible attack (either by seeing them, speaking to them and starting a line of enquiry as in the case linked to or simply by making it more difficult for them to plan thoroughly as they fear they will be seen and stopped)?

which 'we' is this? the police, of whom we're told you're no longer a member, or the public, who i would have thought would generally be dissuaded by the police from approaching potentially dangerous terrorist suspects?

 

[detective-boy]

The was a court case proven beyond reasonable doubt to the satisfaction of a 12 person jury. Quite different to a law that allows police to hassle photographers taking images that could be useful to terrorists!

You really are a fuckwit sometimes. How the fuck did they get in the fucking court if the police didn't start off by "hassling" them ...

Do you think they just gave themselves up and insisted they be tried ...

 

[Roadkill]

I know it did. I was pretending not to understand, for comic effect.

If a police officer is suspicious, as they seem to have been in the case being reported, I would expect them to be inquisitive and to ask questions. I would expect them to be more inquisitive about a young man of North African appearance acting in the way he had been acting, than in the case of, for example, my 86 year old mum taking snaps. I would be unsurprised if Algerian police would act differently if a young British man was acting in the same way at a station in Algiers. Both London and Algiers are cities where young men have in the past committed terrorist outrages. Right enough, I am not a young man of North African appearance and I've never taken photos in stations in Algiers. As an infrequent user of London railway termini I hope that police continue to act in this way, and I must say I am more circumspect about such behaviour in central London that I am in my own home town, although I wouldn't be that surprised or upset if a police officer was to ask me what I was up to with a camera at Glasgow Central.

Fair enough. Irony detector obviously not working very well this evening...

I do take photos at London mainline stations, though, and I'm concerned about the way photographers seem to be subject to a growing amount of suspicion and occasional harassment. A question or two might not be unreasonable if someone's photographing the CCTV equipment, but when it extends to station staff, security guards and on occasion policemen hassling those photographing something as innocuous as a steam train it's a cause for concern.

 

[detective-boy]

which 'we' is this?

Society.