Patrick Finucane
- Thread starter trampie
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
What is left of the colonial empire?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
It's being discussed on other threads, but does derve a thread of its own.
Here's the BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20662412 Contains a link to the Report.
Like the family says, it's funny that all those to blame are dead:
"At every turn, dead witnesses have been blamed and defunct agencies found wanting. Serving personnel and active state departments appear to have been excused".
Here's the BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20662412 Contains a link to the Report.
Like the family says, it's funny that all those to blame are dead:
"At every turn, dead witnesses have been blamed and defunct agencies found wanting. Serving personnel and active state departments appear to have been excused".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
At this time the last thing the finucanes deserve is a little shit like you wittering on
Just seen what Finucane's widow Geraldine has had to say about this and she ain't in the slightest bit happy, the dirt has been swept under the carpet, the report is a sham and a whitewash, dressed up as if its independent and basically the report is insulting and isn't the truth.
She is clearly a very articulate lady, she strikes me as way to clever for our prime minster or any of our Westminster mp's, from what i have read she comes from a middle class Protestant family, participating in a debate or been even handed and fair has never been high on the imperialists list as long as they are the ones wearing Jackboots.
She is clearly a very articulate lady, she strikes me as way to clever for our prime minster or any of our Westminster mp's, from what i have read she comes from a middle class Protestant family, participating in a debate or been even handed and fair has never been high on the imperialists list as long as they are the ones wearing Jackboots.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...odfather-maginnis-16249660.html#ixzz2ErmNLwBe
So they tried to sue this bloke for calling the finucane family an ira family but gave up hmmm?
A lot of much more innocent vivtims dont get an inquiry.
So they tried to sue this bloke for calling the finucane family an ira family but gave up hmmm?
A lot of much more innocent vivtims dont get an inquiry.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
"Overarching state conspiracy" - what does that mean? Or more specifically, what does Cameron mean by that?
They seem to be exonerating [who?] from this episode because ministers didn't know about/order this specific act...but that's not the same as knowing about/allowing these kinds of acts
They seem to be exonerating [who?] from this episode because ministers didn't know about/order this specific act...but that's not the same as knowing about/allowing these kinds of acts
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
"much more innocent victims"? what do you mean by that?
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
'More innocent'? Moral high ground? Don't assassinate a lawyer and justify it by calling him an IRA 'Godfather', play the game, collect evidence and charge him but don't collude with scum and break his door down and shoot him in the head in front of his kids. And then when his kids grow up and ask questions, don't fuck them about for years with bullshit, when everyone knows it's bullshit. Out the truth.
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Dirty cop hands over a file to his prod mates is a scummy thing to do.
But does not involve posh blokes in suits with some cunning plan
78 other people were killed in the troubles that year
It's not dirty cops and scummy shenanigans with prod mates. It was structured and deliberate and it really was posh blokes in suits. And I know how easy it is to look back and say this or that was beyond the pale but it's this kind of cover-up bullshit that fuels the current situation and potentially the next wave of craziness. We're supposed to be beyond this, truth and reconciliation and all that jazz. Most people couldn't care less if the truth were told but not coming clean, it just fucks it up even more. Especially since we all know what went on, that's the crazy bit.
miktheword
Well-Known Member
and there was a posh MP in a suit,(Douglas Hogg ) in Parliament a few weeks before his murder, who said that he was 'unduly sympathetic' to the IRA. How much of a green light did they need?
elbows
Well-Known Member
Even the government realised, rather a long time ago now, that an even half-credible report into events would need to go well beyond that sort of narrative.
As it is right now we have reached a point where they can be honest about a range of things, but can expresss them as failings and shortcomings, and where vaguely plausible deniability barriers still exist as we get towards the highest levels of state.
This is not surrpising but attempts to get past this and find complete complete certainty in terms of who ordered what, and whether a specific killing was ordered by the elected members of a government itself, as opposed to other elements of state power, capability and decision making literally calling the shots, are always likely to remain murky. A range of possibilities exist, including the elected parts of government setting a policy which encouraged other parts of the state such as the army to employ specific murderous tactics, aided by a suitable degree of turning a blind eye by government. But there is also the possibility of unelected parts of the state at a range of higher levels deciding that they knew best and would manipulate ministers to further their own strategies and tactics, with a private 'democratic' justification that they knew best and were doing what the government wanted really even if a particular minister or cabinet didnt actually know its what was in their best interests.
So, a fair amount of questions about dog wagging tail or tail wagging dog will always remain. However we can get round that when considering overall responsibility by returning the buck to the governments door-step via something like 'they set the mood, the structure of state bodies and ultimately have the power to put the states house in order. Actions by elements of the state which threaten and undermine the overall objectives of the state would be frowned upon and despite allowing for the messy realities, games and power struggles that can exist on so many levels, you might think that those at the top would be rather keen to ensure their most crucial tools of the state were on message'.
Apologies for my possibly unclear and confusing use of language in this post, Im sure there is a better way of putting it.
elbows
Well-Known Member
And more generally we have another vivid example of how a states addiction to intelligence and capabilities usually trumps a range of 'values' that a state may profess to hold dear. Concepts such as the rule of law and justice are left weak at the knees by the addiction to this form of power, and thats no surprise since power at these murky levels is oh so potent. Not a tool you throw away no matter if it hampers really important powerful illusions. Propaganda, belief and personal sense of 'doing what is right' play second fiddle to such things, and can easily corrupt values in order to try and have it both ways via, as a last resort against thinking yourself/your regime is actually evil, 'the ends justify the means'.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
I want to see that cunt in a court explaining his actions and comments. Fucking reptile of a man.
SpookyFrank
Float like a caterpillar, sting like a tree
So this guy makes a career of defending murderers in court and then his family get all upset when his murderers are not brought to justice?
I have to admit there are people for whom I feel more sympathy.
I have to admit there are people for whom I feel more sympathy.
I'm not sure where to start with this Frank. You really are all over the place all of the time.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Accused murderers. Or would you like to dispense with the whole system of proof, court hearings, etc and just execute people who you think are dodgy?
This is why the dirty war against the IRA, etc is an issue for everyone in the UK. It's about how safe our legal and political system really is, for us.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
tell you what, when you're shot by people in cahoots with the state in front of your family i'll remember this and say he may have been killed by a government directed death squad but there are of course more deserving victims for me to think about.
SpookyFrank
Float like a caterpillar, sting like a tree
Well I don't know much about it tbh. I'm not saying matey boy deserved to get murdered, but by sticking up for armed nutters who liked murdering people he must've helped in some small way to prolong the insanity that eventually came looking for him.
SpookyFrank
Float like a caterpillar, sting like a tree
You mean like the IRA did?
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Ignorance like this is something that helps to prolong the insanity.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the IRA's actions, everyone deserves defending in court.
For someone who identifies as an anarchist, for you to be siding with the state on this is bizarre.
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