P&O Ferries sacks workers and docks ships

[Jeff Robinson]

Brilliant

We love to see these corrupt, careerist fucks getting publicly dragged by the working class. They must be exposed and humiliated whenever possible!

 

[hitmouse]

Yeah, I get the impression it must be a very rough week to be working in publicity for P&O Cruises:

Southampton's P&O Cruises forced to repeatedly say 'we are not P&O Ferries'

SOUTHAMPTON-BASED P&O Cruises has been baring the brunt of a decision to sack 800 staff by a similarly-named firm it is not linked to.

www.dailyecho.co.uk

Also a rough week to be working in PR for P&O Ferries, but fuck 'em.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah, I get the impression it must be a very rough week to be working in publicity for P&O Cruises:

Southampton's P&O Cruises forced to repeatedly say 'we are not P&O Ferries'

SOUTHAMPTON-BASED P&O Cruises has been baring the brunt of a decision to sack 800 staff by a similarly-named firm it is not linked to.

www.dailyecho.co.uk

Also a rough week to be working in PR for P&O Ferries, but fuck 'em.

Not a good day to be working for the daily echo where the difference between bearing and baring has been forgotten

 

[hitmouse]

Not a good day to be working for the daily echo where the difference between bearing and baring has been forgotten

Maybe they're hoping to make it to the BBC?

 

[tim]

Not a good day to be working for the daily echo where the difference between bearing and baring has been forgotten

Well, Nick Leeson is now a consultant advising firms in corporate responsibility.

Nick Leeson – Official Website

Official website of Nick Leeson – the original Rogue Trader whose unchecked risk-taking and drive for success caused the collapse of Barings Bank in 1995. His fascinating story was turned into a best-selling book and Hollywood movie.

www.nickleeson.com

 

[hitmouse]

Well, Nick Leeson is now a consultant advising firms in corporate responsibility.

Nick Leeson – Official Website

Official website of Nick Leeson – the original Rogue Trader whose unchecked risk-taking and drive for success caused the collapse of Barings Bank in 1995. His fascinating story was turned into a best-selling book and Hollywood movie.

www.nickleeson.com

Is that not also the precise area that Alan Murray/Officer E from the SPG went into? Something about that field seems to attract really ethical people.

 

[Sue]

Is that not also the precise area that Alan Murray/Officer E from the SPG went into? Something about that field seems to attract really ethical people.

He should've stuck to tennis.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Yeah, I get the impression it must be a very rough week to be working in publicity for P&O Cruises:

wonder if they are going to have to change their name to recover from this?

 

[StoneRoad]

wonder if they are going to have to change their name to recover from this?

P&O Cruises shouldn't have to [they're not at fault]
But P&O Ferries will probably need to.

Or they'll go bust, maybe stena or someone will buy their boats off the liquidator ...
[unless the cunting management back off completely and re-instate everybody, which they won't.]

Whoever thought that it was OK to fire & replace with agency ... needs to take a long look at themselves.
As has been mentioned, I hope MCA do them over ...

 

[Serge Forward]

But will P&O cruises sue P&O ferries for reputational damage?

 

[nogojones]

Under devolution, does the Scottish Gvt have the power to nationalise?

I know transport is devolved in Wales, but they only ever ape whatever England does (but bi-lingually)

 

[weepiper]

Under devolution, does the Scottish Gvt have the power to nationalise?

I know transport is devolved in Wales, but they only ever ape whatever England does (but bi-lingually)

I think so. Calmac and Northlink are already state-owned. The train contract has recently been removed from Abellio (a private company) and is being taken over by a Scottish Government owned 'operator of last resort' so there is precedent.

 

[MickiQ]

Under devolution, does the Scottish Gvt have the power to nationalise?

I know transport is devolved in Wales, but they only ever ape whatever England does (but bi-lingually)

I don't think anyone genuinely knows to be truthful. As far as I understand the Devolution Act sets out some things that Holyrood can definitely do and some things they definitely can't. Everything else is a grey area where Holyrood would probably have to try it and either Westminster says yes or it says no and it gets thrashed out in court.
They clearly can't nationalise the whole of P&O but they could have a crack at nationalising the 2 ships that work the one Scottish route.
DP World probably wouldn't fight it after all they would get a fair amount of money out of it. So it would all come down to are they willing, will Boris try to stop them and will they need money off the Treasury or could they fund it themselves?

 

[nogojones]

Was just about to post that. She also thought that her ex husband, who carried out several sexual assaults, only 'behaved badly' and got an excessive sentence. Wiki:

I imagine she'll use an agency to recruit a new hubby. One worse terms of course.

 

[MickiQ]

A thought occurs to me that if the Scottish Govt does nationalise their bit of P&O Ferries then it is going to be on the basis of maintaining the service, saving jobs is a non starter so they are going to have to wait whilst the company does or doesn't sort itself out.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This is both heartening in the sense that some basic solidarity still exists and also revealing in what the scab labour has and hasn’t been told by their bosses:

P&O: Agency seafarers quit after hearing about sacked staff

Seafarers felt "like a traitors" when they heard they were taking over from sacked staff at Cairnryan.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Highly revealing story about the mindset of the upper echelons of the Civil Service. Not only does it raise questions of basic competence but also suggests that officials are dazzled by Dubai money, the prospect - for the wealthy - of tax free ports and fully aligned with the requirements of transnational capital.

However, I suspect the story has been leaked to take pressure off Ministers (does Shapps really need a civil servant to tell him if these types of measures are legal??).

That’s why Labour needs to demand an inquiry. Who knew what? When did they know? What did they say? What did they do? Etc etc

In the meantime, DP world need booting off all contracts and off its advisory role on Freeport’s.

Officials failed to challenge P&O firings

Whitehall officials tried to justify P&O Ferries’ sacking of 800 workers by telling ministers it would “ensure that they remain a key player in the UK market f

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[hitmouse]

Reluctant to even mention this aspect again, but in the hopes of definitively putting it to bed:

Are the P&O Ferries mass sackings a result of Brexit?

Analysis: UK government claimed EU exit would let it change employment law, but it has not yet done so

www.theguardian.com

To the layperson, the unceremonious sacking of 800 P&O Ferries workers may look like a consequence of Britain leaving the EU, with any legal action by the trade unions turning into the first big test of workers’ rights post-Brexit.

Despite Boris Johnson’s assurances that Britain’s departure from the EU would be better for UK workers, there have been fears it would be seen by the government as an opportunity to erode workers’ rights in a bid to increase competitiveness.

However, the reality is that, so far at least, there has been no derogation from EU employment rights and the scope for any backsliding is limited. Contained within the trade and cooperation agreement with the EU, there is a non-regression clause, under which Britain agreed not to reduce employment rights below the standards existing on 31 December 2020 in a manner that would affect trade or investment. The EU could take retaliatory measures such as tariffs if trade or investment were affected and could also legally challenge the regression before a panel of experts.

John Bowers QC, a leading employment barrister and principal of Brasenose college, Oxford, said: “Although the government’s huffed and puffed about changing the law, so far they haven’t. The straightforward statutory redundancy law is purely UK, it’s the redundancy consultation [law] that is EU-related and we haven’t changed that.

Andrea London, a partner in law firm Winckworth Sherwood’s employment team, said Brexit was a “red herring”. She said the EU collective redundancies directive was implemented in the UK by a primary act of parliament which “gold-plated” (went beyond) the EU legislation, adding: “Given its longevity and trade union backing, it is firmly entrenched in the UK employment law environment, and there inevitably would be considerable opposition to any repeal or paring back of the protections in this act due to leaving the EU.”

When there were reports – denied by the government – that proposals were being considered to lower employment rights, those plans did not mention redundancy rights but rather an end to the 48-hour maximum working week, changes to rules about breaks at work, and removing overtime pay when calculating certain holiday pay entitlements.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Labour are tabling the following in Parliament tomorrow:

- P&O workforce reinstated and legal action taken against P&O

- Government contracts suspended

- Fire and rehire outlawed

Not sure how this will be done and if there will be a vote but I’ll be watching this closely

 

[hitmouse]

Posted above, but just to remind people again that RMT and supporters will also be outside Parliament on the day:

 

[pogofish]

I think so. Calmac and Northlink are already state-owned. The train contract has recently been removed from Abellio (a private company) and is being taken over by a Scottish Government owned 'operator of last resort' so there is precedent.

Calmac came into state ownership in 1948 when the railway nationalisation merged the Caledonian, MacBrayne and a couple of smaller operators, all owned by railway companies, into a single fleet. They have been passed round a few different government organs since.

Northlink are a lot more complex and have gone in and out of state ownership, partial state ownership and private hands since P&O were booted off the route in 1999 (they had really lost interest and run the boats/infrastructure right down ). Currently they are still I think owned/operated by SERCO but were due to pass back into state ownership in 2020 but I think COVID delayed that?

There is however a complex commercial/legal arrangement in place to protect Calmac - and later Northlink vessels, harbours and infrastructure from falling victim to asset strippers/commercial disputes should an operator go-bust or become worthless due to losing a tender. These now belong to a Scottish Government owned company called CMAL (Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd), which is not subject to tendering and legislation is in place that allows Holyrood to compel any selected operator to use these assets. Further legislation has also been put in place to preserve continuity by protecting the Northlink brand (at least) under different operators.

I also have a vague memory that under devolution, the North Channel services to NI were declared/protected as strategic national/UK assets, so were unaffected by the devolution settlement but that may have changed in the years since? Scotland trying to nationalise them could well open a big can of worms, although personally I think it a good idea.

 

[hitmouse]

Update to the above, now meeting at DP World headquarters, 16 Palace St, at 1pm:

 

[The39thStep]

Anyone recently seen the employment law experts on here who put this all down to Brexit ?

 

[not-bono-ever]

even pre brexit, the bosses had pretty much the easiest. most capital friendly system to abuse within the EU bloc. whatever petty financial penalties that might be levied on the dubai ports lots will likely be factored into their plan

 

[not-bono-ever]

found some pics of my dad on the picket line at Dover over the weekend funnily enough.

 

[A380]

wonder if they are going to have to change their name to recover from this?

They did that once before when they rebranded from Townsend Thoreson to P&O after the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster. The group then owning both brands/companies. That was a pretty bad bit of brand destruction too.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

even pre brexit, the bosses had pretty much the easiest. most capital friendly system to abuse within the EU bloc. whatever petty financial penalties that might be levied on the dubai ports lots will likely be factored into their plan

Not sure what you mean by ‘even before Brexit’ as nothing has changed in terms of employment law. The aim, for our side, post Brexit is to force Labour to improve matters.

Anyway, on the other point you raise, as I understand it P&O could face a considerable set of penalties if unions can overcome their attempt to construct a defence that the employment contracts of their workers are based on Jersey law.

Firstly, automatic unfair dismissal claims will cost them a years salary for each worker. On top of that each worker will submit a schedule of loss covering pensions losses, future earnings losses (especially for those who can’t find work and are younger this will be chunky) hurt to feelings, failure to consult etc. 800 claims of this nature is likely to add up to a significant amount of money.

Then there is the the failure to notify BEIS. Not only is this illegal but the potential fine is uncapped meaning a judge could impose exemplary costs. The relevant code says “If you do not comply with the statutory notification requirements without good cause it may result in prosecution and a fine, on summary conviction, for the company and/or officer of the company.”

In addition to that the government investigation should also be raising the hole in the pension fund and forcing DP World to address it…

 

[MrSki]

Anyone recently seen the employment law experts on here who put this all down to Brexit ?

I would have been one of those & admit I got this one wrong. I spent half of last week in hospital on a drip & hopefully can be forgiven for having more pressing issues to worry about than this thread.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Further to my post above it appears that P&O have got until tomorrow to respond to the Minister. Presumably, legal action will commence once they have. Labour have also forced a vote on fire and re-hire in Parliament today. Fair play to Labour (for once):

Labour urges Kwasi Kwarteng to launch legal action against P&O Ferries

Letter to business secretary calls firm’s sacking of 800 workers ‘scandalous’ and a criminal offence

www.theguardian.com

 

[Elpenor]

I would have been one of those & admit I got this one wrong. I spent half of last week in hospital on a drip & hopefully can be forgiven for having more pressing issues to worry about than this thread.

Hope you’re feeling better now mate